Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve used Excel and Calc and the short answer is ‘everything’. Excel is faster, more reliable and has a much bigger community. Calc is ok if you want to work with small spreadsheets and don’t care about the occasional bug.
not the parent, but 'everything' is a mostly unhelpful answer. A few important concrete examples would be much more interesting. In fairness, you did somewhat, but I would be interested in some more details.
'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
221–230 of 377 posts
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is an elitist software engineer's take. No it isn't. This is MY take and I'm not an elitist software engineer. > People building on Excel isn't a result of failure to educate, it's humans doing what humans do best—automating their own workload. No, it isn't. It is human behaviour alright, but it's cutting corners because it feels better to do what you already know instead of doing what was instructed. This is…
>Example: if you need to visualise your data from multiple sources company-wide, we'd have Tableau (and training, access, templates, portals etc) for example. That means you do it there as per instruction, and you don't go trying to setup some home-brew graph in excel that you manually regenerate every day and forget to generate when you are on vacation. Then your CFO calls up and says, 'I have a meeting in 30 minute…
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#223I grew out of it. I started to really loath the spreadsheet data model. "it's a big bag of cells" was not really doing anything for me. I started wanting better data structures and programing environments to work on that data. For the data storage and basic calculations on that stored data role, I mainly use a relational database, most of what I wanted in a spreadsheet was row level security, that is, for my rows to…
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
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To take your Hammer example it really depends on what you're doing. If the only thing you're doing is pounding framing nails then one framing hammer is generally suitable. If you need to pound framing nails and you need to do metal work and you need to do fine finish work you will need a number of different hammers to accomplish those jobs and have a good outcome in each task. Your argument is that Excel is fine at b…
You see being an expert with your tools is more important than having every tool in the catalogue. In fact, knowing that one hammer intimately, having your thumb print worn into the grip, was much better than having a multitude of hammers that I had no feel for.
I would rather my team were great at Excel, knew its foibles and limitations, than to start dabbling at things they could never become properly familiar with. I don't need people who suck at SQL writing queries. I don't need people who are great at SQL but don't understand accounts either. I have been burnt by both. IT people who decide you don't need x, and filter it out are a menace to my profession.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly right. I work in investment banking and the reason I believe Excel will never go away is because of how easy it is to follow extremely complex financing structures. If I build a financial model, the 60 year old CFO needs to be able to understand it and agree with it. One other aspect is all of the shortcuts and hot keys. If you switched to a different software you’d have to relearn shortcuts that you…
Worked for a company whose automated options trading system was an.... excel spreadsheet. Every now and then I would need to RDP to a machine to RDP into another machine to restart it. Pain. So much pain.
It would take a 1 year project and 5 devs to replace what one finance person created in a day.
Then when it didnt work complain the SME got the requirements wrong.
Im being silly but as a dev i hate the hate for excel, though i know from years of experience that its also a nightmare.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Example: if you need to visualise your data from multiple sources company-wide, we'd have Tableau (and training, access, templates, portals etc) for example. That means you do it there as per instruction, and you don't go trying to setup some home-brew graph in excel that you manually regenerate every day and forget to generate when you are on vacation. Then your CFO calls up and says, 'I have a meeting in 30 minute…
Exactly. When a process is important enough and repeated often enough, it will move into a more formal system. But most of the time spent running a business is at the fringes of what has been automated and formalized, and this isn't an accident—the automated processes are there precisely because they reduce or eliminate the human time. That means most of the humans (outside of front-line customer support or similar)…
Sure, like I wrote (twice already), you might need to have some malleable rows in front of you on your local workstation for some ephemeral work. But the actual workflow happens in the ERP system. Or the CRM. Or the PIM system. Or in Tableau. Or Databricks. And my beef is with people who think their personal flavour of alternate software should bypass that, even when they have been explicitly told not to. When someone needs to stream the truth (data-wise), that comes out of those systems, not some kludgy sheet on someone's network share. Those are the rules that we set up.
I don't understand why this is so difficult for everyone to understand (on HN of all places). These are general staff functions we practically have entire schools for, to make people work this way.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Excel spreadsheets are auditable? If that's the case, why do studies show that so many Excel spreadsheets have major errors in them? https://theconversation.com/spreadsheet-errors-can-have-disa... https://phys.org/news/2024-08-business-spreadsheets-critical... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=study+excel+spreadsheets+contain+e...
Yes. Auditable in this context means something that can be examined by a financial auditor. Auditors understand and can check through Excel but they don't understand code. It is not on the auditor to guarantee that what they are looking at has no errors. Their statements on their audit reports say as much. In my old job, we had to switch away from our working but ancient Information System to SAP for similar reasons.
Spreadsheets are code. Their user-facing side is a particular form of livecode oriented around "sheets"/2D arrays of data tightly connected with reactive code -- which definitely has some legibility advantages -- but they're code.
Auditability is legibility. The advantages help. But also the reasons why Excel code is legible to auditors probably have some things in common with the reasons Ruby code is legible to devs who've worked with Ruby or sufficiently-Ruby like languages: exposure, training, and culture that have coalesced around it.
And I'd guess that people who don't understand that spreadsheets are code are less likely to be able to read the limits of legibility past where there be dragons, fog, and possibly even fraud.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#228I have several extremely complex spreadsheets that have reached a breaking point because "the maximum number of fonts has been exceeded". There's like 8 fonts being used at most. The problem is, I don't have an alternative piece of software that can maintain the other very complicated formatting, let alone import it. And it now starts to revert formatting randomly throughout the spreadsheets. It's a widely known prob…
I can't imagine the use case for having more than 1 font in a spreadsheet. Please elaborate. I'm pretty sure Excel is the wrong tool for whatever job you are throwing at it.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#229I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…
I'm using Google Sheets instead of Excel since a few years, and the only feature I miss is Solver.
Having to wait for Excel to load up every time would be a killer.
I also really like Google Forms, and use it for tracking things like my piano practice time[0]. The page loads instantly and it only takes 6-7 seconds to log a new time.
https://i.imgur.com/xK6tnJe.png
I don't think Excel offers anything like this.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because there are so many spreadsheets? My team probably created 100 last week. Now think of 100 pieces of software that you are confident are 100% error free?
> Because there are so many spreadsheets? The studies show the percentage of spreadsheets with errors in. Unless you have a reason to suspect this is not independent of the number of spreadsheets, I'm not sure what your point is? > Now think of 100 pieces of software that you are confident are 100% error free? Because software is either buggy or not buggy? And measurements like "defect rate" (e.g. defects/kloc) and "…
I have to say my experience as a user has been that all software is buggy to some extent. Anyone who has worked in software for a reasonable amount of time will have found a bug in their own code that apparently worked fine, but actually was not quite right.
Would anybody on hn stand up and say that they never had a bug?