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The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

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Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#221

Post by chiefalchemist »

FreakLegion wrote: post #216
chiefalchemist wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for him? He's just ruined that possibility for just about anyone else going forward. Praise him? No way. Ironic isn't it? He cries about the scourge known as PE, and he's single handedly f*ked every investor-seeking founder everywhere going forward.

Yes, good for him if the wholly speculative scenario I described is true. What's going on with Matt and WordPress will have zero impact on other founders.

So you're saying no other investor(s) - which btw Matt / Automattic has - anywhere are going to be concerned about what leverage they have if the founder goes sideways?

That's naive at best.

Plenty of investors are already asking "Can I get f*ked like this?" And going forward investors will be sure not to be exposed unnecessarily.

Zero impact? That's silly. Investors what high returns and lowest possible risk. Matt has made single founder with too much control high risk.

Yes, this has f*ked other investment-seeking founders. Full stop.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#222

Post by mardifoufs »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #205
mardifoufs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, so is WPengine actually contributing to WordPress? Everything I've seen seem to indicate very little development work. But maybe I'm misinformed. Also, the community (in terms of development) is basically automattic and... that's it. That's the whole problem! But again, I completely agree that the royalty request was extremely weird especially considering the supposed separation between WordPress.org & Automatt…

> Hmmm, so is WPengine actually contributing Yes, WPEngine is contributing to the wordpress community, but that's beside the point, since WPEngine's contributions to the community only came up when WPEngine refused matt's shakedown demand to transfer money into matt's pockets. Weirder still, matt banned WPEngine from contributing to the community on wordpressdotorg, then took some of WPEngine's community contribution…

No, I think it's much more interesting that you keep focusing on the community part, as if paying some token amounts for marketing stuff (sponsoring conferences, events) is similar to pouring tons of engineering work into the product. It almost sounds like "paying in exposure".

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#223

Post by chiefalchemist »

shprd wrote: post #188
chiefalchemist wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? I'm curious, why not? WPE has other employees dedicated to WP and The Community. I'm not defending WPE but just because they don't contribute in a way MM wants doesn't mean they don't contribute. Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous. Matt is not a dictator. Oh wait, scratch that. p.s. Matt should be careful what he wishes for. If WPE or anyo…

> Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous. Where did I say they don't contribute? I said they don't contribute beyond their mouth > You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? It's a marketing strategy, first and foremost. If they didn't offer it, an alternative would come along and attract the crowd. You know what's disingenuous? Claiming it's a contribution when you're doing it as mark…

> It's a marketing strategy

And what makes Automattic's contributions any different? They "steer" the product to their benefit and sell that as what's good for them is good for all.

That's rubbish.

It's not contributing to "the cause" when the features you add are solely for your own benefit. Not that self-serving is wrong. But to sell it as benevolent red lines any decent bullshit detector.

Matt defined the license. Now he regrets that and he wants a cut. Nuttin wrong with that. But to sell it otherwise is shite. We're not that stupid.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#224

Post by chiefalchemist »

mthoms wrote: post #161
shprd wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not new, Matt has been trying to reach an agreement for years.[1] To be fair, he has done everything he can for the health of the ecosystem for all these years. WP Engine leech off the WordPress brand from head to toe. Literally, from trademark to infrastructure, while Automattic covers the bill for the most part. Of course, legally, WPE doesn't have to contribute beyond its mouth but if we are going down that r…

There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement. This dispute could have, and should have, been resolved without involving… literally everyone.

Yup. Conclusion: It's not about trademarks.

It's about ego.

It's about money.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#225

Post by FreakLegion »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #221
FreakLegion wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, good for him if the wholly speculative scenario I described is true. What's going on with Matt and WordPress will have zero impact on other founders.

So you're saying no other investor(s) - which btw Matt / Automattic has - anywhere are going to be concerned about what leverage they have if the founder goes sideways? That's naive at best. Plenty of investors are already asking "Can I get f*ked like this?" And going forward investors will be sure not to be exposed unnecessarily. Zero impact? That's silly. Investors what high returns and lowest possible risk. Matt h…

No, it hasn't. I'm a founder. I have investors. Nobody serious is asking these questions, for reasons that make perfect sense when you're familiar with the mechanics of venture investing and corporate governance.

I won't say nobody is asking questions at all, because "investor" is a loosey-goosey term and there are plenty of people writing small checks who call themselves investors. But those people never had leverage anyway. Investors get preferred shares with no voting rights (or even information rights!). The only ones who have any power are round leads, whose board seats are enshrined in the company's articles of incorporation.

If -- and again, it's a big if -- Matt, after raising a billion dollars across many funding rounds, still controls a majority of the voting shares and board seats, it's because Automattic was already so successful that he's been able to dictate terms every step of the way. This is stupendously rare. It's not a situation that applies to other startups, or that investors are measurably worried about.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#226

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

mardifoufs wrote: post #222
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hmmm, so is WPengine actually contributing Yes, WPEngine is contributing to the wordpress community, but that's beside the point, since WPEngine's contributions to the community only came up when WPEngine refused matt's shakedown demand to transfer money into matt's pockets. Weirder still, matt banned WPEngine from contributing to the community on wordpressdotorg, then took some of WPEngine's community contribution…

No, I think it's much more interesting that you keep focusing on the community part, as if paying some token amounts for marketing stuff (sponsoring conferences, events) is similar to pouring tons of engineering work into the product. It almost sounds like "paying in exposure".

I'd hardly consider ACF to be described as such, but: "paying some token that amounts for marketing stuff" according to whose descriptions of their community contributions?

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#227

Post by philistine »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #139
wise_young_man wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked Automattic is a privately held for profit company. One could argue that it’s a private equity too. Just using different words to twist a narrative.

This is not the same. Private equity extracts as an investment, Automattic is an ecosystem participant (that happens to be privately held) that actively contributes to the community. That doesn’t mean Matt hasn’t taken things too far (I leave that to be determined by civil courts and the Wordpress community, no dog in the fight myself), but there is a difference, and it is very important to clearly delineate who is r…

> Automattic is an ecosystem participant

They were, until the CEO started burning decades of goodwill. At this point I'm looking at what I should do to get off Automattic for my website, I'm legit scared plugin developers are going to get spooked.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#228

Post by philistine »

throw16180339 wrote: post #106
chiefalchemist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to speculate, especially from a distance. But I do wonder: - Why now? What snapped? Clearly WPE didn't go to "billions" over night. So why go nuclear now? - Doesn't he have a close and immediate circle of advisors and confidants? Are they speaking to him and he's not listen? Or has he locked himself in a room so to speak and is completely unapproachable? Either way, not good. - Is he trying to force WPE to for…

> Am I the only one who can't imagine a good outcome from all this? Here's a possible good outcome. 1. The board fires Matt, stops chasing windmills, and settles with WP Engine. I'm kind of surprised they haven't done so already - it's all downhill from here. He's either lying to them, not listening, or they're drinking the Kool Aid. 2. Matt steps down from the WordPress Foundation and transfers ownership of wordpres…

I don't believe that this board will do anything that isn't already on the meeting agenda that Matt has prepared: https://automattic.com/board/

It is so transparently apparent that these people are completely subservient to Matt.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#229

Post by philistine »

shprd wrote: post #144
chiefalchemist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to speculate, especially from a distance. But I do wonder: - Why now? What snapped? Clearly WPE didn't go to "billions" over night. So why go nuclear now? - Doesn't he have a close and immediate circle of advisors and confidants? Are they speaking to him and he's not listen? Or has he locked himself in a room so to speak and is completely unapproachable? Either way, not good. - Is he trying to force WPE to for…

It's not new, Matt has been trying to reach an agreement for years.[1] To be fair, he has done everything he can for the health of the ecosystem for all these years. WP Engine leech off the WordPress brand from head to toe. Literally, from trademark to infrastructure, while Automattic covers the bill for the most part. Of course, legally, WPE doesn't have to contribute beyond its mouth but if we are going down that r…

You sound like those armchair communists who feel they need to agree with Stalin because he was a communist too. You know, a person doing evil things for the right reasons is still doing evil things.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#230

Post by mklepaczewski »

It was a stupid, stupid decision on WP's part.

After reading it, the first thing I did was to make sure that I and all WP sites I have access to had automatic updates disabled. This always seemed like a good policy to me, as it is such a massive attack vector. After all, some popular plugin developed by someone in Nebraska (obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2347/) might be hijacked at some point. WP did the stupidest thing ever by hijacking ACF.

WP is the villain now because they can inject unknown, unvetted code into my site (if I had enabled automatic updates). While I find ACF's code abhorrent, at least it has a proven track record of working and not crashing my site. Someone who just took over the plugin does not enjoy the same trust from me.

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