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Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

medscape.com

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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#221

Post by Sharlin »

SoftTalker wrote: post #216
the_gorilla wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outside observer, I have to notice that doctors and "the system" have lost such trust that people prefer self-medicating with illegal drugs.

"The system" has no interest in curing your depression. They want you to keep making therapy appointments, and they want you to keep refilling prescriptions. Individual doctors may or may not have this view. I'm talking about "the system." Just consider the incentives. That tells you all you need to know.

When "the system" subsidizes your therapy and your prescription drugs (as in most civilized societies), and indeed pays for your medical leave and loses value in the form of lost workdays, it definitely doesn't have much of an incentive to keep you in therapy or on drugs.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#222

Post by worik »

hn_version_0023 wrote: post #208
drakonka wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the effect is different when prescribed for something other than depression, but I did not find my SSRI to suppress my emotions. It simply helps me curb rumination and negative thought spirals. Helps to feel "lighter" and simultaneously more grounded. If anything, that allows me to feel _more_ positive emotion rather than suppressing it.

Cool, glad you had a positive experience. My experience was the opposite: emotionally numb to the point where awfully bad things happened in my presence and I barely shrugged. Being unable to feel joy or pain, being unable to cry when a loved on passed on; these were the hallmarks of my time on SSRIs. Never again will I subject myself to these drugs. It took me twice as long to get off them as I was on them. Two year…

> Our experiences are just anecdata.

Just?

Anecdotes matter

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#223

Post by worik »

phoronixrly wrote: post #155
feoren wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come every time we try to have a conversion, it always ends up all "point counterpoint" and "personal experience with the topic" and "differing personal experience" and "discussion of how those experiences relate to the topic"!? EVERY TIME!

The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand.

> The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand.

No

People's lived experience is very useful

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#224

Post by worik »

bugbuddy wrote: post #147
DiscourseFan wrote: post #82

Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…

> Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I would like to see some actual data because my assumption has always been that most people have never tried any. I personally have not had any. I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice.

> I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice

Me too

Come on over the skiing is great!

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#225

Post by crazygringo »

xterminator wrote: post #206

Psychedelics are nice and powerful - maybe too powerful. I don't trust the system to use them responsibly. I'd rather obtain and use them on my own than as part of some private - or governmental - initiative. There's no one to trust more than a good friend to be there for you when the ride gets bumpy, not some guy in a suit doing it for the money.

> There's no one to trust more than a good friend to be there for you when the ride gets bumpy, not some guy in a suit doing it for the money.

I couldn't disagree more.

Your good friend most likely doesn't have the slightest idea how to handle things if your trip goes south. Especially when they're on their own "ride". That's not to disparage anyone, but just to state the fact that there is training around these things that comes from lots of experience.

And therapists are not "some guy in a suit doing it for the money". You don't get rich doing psychotherapy -- you do it because you genuinely want to help people. And never in my life have I seen a therapist in a suit.

This isn't to say that every therapist is great or that every friend is terrible -- just that the relative success rates of being able to help someone on a bad trip, both during and after, are going to be a lot higher on the side of trained therapists. Because of the training.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#226

Post by striking »

NickM wrote: post #202
striking wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not claiming they don't. Everyone experiences SSRIs differently and it's common to shop around until you find one whose side effects impact your life in a more tolerable way. That's in contrast to psylocybin, which has substantially more serious potential acute side effects, ones that are more difficult to understand and treat should they occur. I'm not saying psylocybin is unsafe or that SSRIs are always prefera…

I'm not claiming they don't. You were clearly implying they don’t when you downplayed all SSRI downsides as “a handful of annoying side effects”. Weight gain kills. Suicidal ideation also kills many people when they start SSRIs. People have killed themselves because of permanent sexual dysfunction caused by SSRIs that never went away after stopping the drugs (and yes, this is a known possible adverse effect listed in…

I wasn't aware of PSSD (I don't seem to be alone on that front).

Leaving this link for others to pick up for more information: https://annals-general-psychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles...

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#227

Post by ghnws »

neom wrote: post #21

Psilocybin saved my life. I'm no longer suicidal, I'm no longer a practicing alcoholic, and outside of a few things here and there, I'm generally at peace with my life. I cannot express how grateful I am for psilocybin.

SSRIs did the same for me.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#228

Post by Klonoar »

hmcq6 wrote: post #193
DiscourseFan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 500ug of LSD mixed with probably 6 or 7 drinks of alcohol. Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. Regardless I’ve heard stories of people having severe long term psychological issues from even relatively light doses, simply because of how their body in particular interacted with the drug.

You got serotonin syndrome from LSD? That is incredibly rare, so rare I can’t find any other documented cases Edit: did you test it to make sure it was real LSD?

I'm somewhat surprised there's only one comment here asking this.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#229

Post by lovethevoid »

SoftTalker wrote: post #216
the_gorilla wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outside observer, I have to notice that doctors and "the system" have lost such trust that people prefer self-medicating with illegal drugs.

"The system" has no interest in curing your depression. They want you to keep making therapy appointments, and they want you to keep refilling prescriptions. Individual doctors may or may not have this view. I'm talking about "the system." Just consider the incentives. That tells you all you need to know.

I don't think you've really considered the incentives either.

The system has as much interest in curing your depression as it does curing obesity. Long term, these conditions are very costly. It takes people out of peak condition, reduces labor pool, increases number of patients taking up resources at hospitals and doctors offices, and so on. A system which encourages these things is a failing one, as taxpayer costs would only continue to balloon.

Additionally, since the thread is about psilocybin, people would still be filling up prescriptions for those.

Also, self-medicating is also very costly. Not only to the system, as people often wind up in hospitals due to laced products or incorrect doses (see marijuana in a lot of states where dealers really aren't concerned about quality), but also to the individual. People are spending absurd amounts of money on vitamins and mushroom teas and all that in hopes it helps, but rarely is that the case due to these categories not being strictly regulated.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#230

Post by xterminator »

crazygringo wrote: post #225
xterminator wrote: post #206

Psychedelics are nice and powerful - maybe too powerful. I don't trust the system to use them responsibly. I'd rather obtain and use them on my own than as part of some private - or governmental - initiative. There's no one to trust more than a good friend to be there for you when the ride gets bumpy, not some guy in a suit doing it for the money.

> There's no one to trust more than a good friend to be there for you when the ride gets bumpy, not some guy in a suit doing it for the money. I couldn't disagree more. Your good friend most likely doesn't have the slightest idea how to handle things if your trip goes south. Especially when they're on their own "ride". That's not to disparage anyone, but just to state the fact that there is training around these thin…

>Your good friend most likely doesn't have the slightest idea how to handle things if your trip goes south.

Yes they can, everyone experienced can. It's part of having empathy.

>Especially when they're on their own "ride".

The trip sitter doesn't trip while sitting.

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