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Learning to Reason with LLMs

openai.com

221–230 of 1001 posts

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#221
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unfortunate. When an LLM makes a mistake it's very helpful to read the CoT and see what went wrong (input error/instruction error/random shit)

Yeah, exposed chain of thought is more useful as a user, as well as being useful for training purposes.

I think we may discover that model do some cryptic mess inside instead of some clean reasoning.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#222

The progress in AI is incredibly depressing, at this point I don't think there's much to look forward to in life. It's sad that due to unearned hubris and a complete lack of second-order thinking we are automating ourselves out of existence. EDIT: I understand you guys might not agree with my comments. But don't you thinking that flagging them is going a bit too far?

Not at all... they're still so incapable of so much. And even when they do advance, they can be tremendous tools of synthesis and thought at an unparalleled scale.

"A good human plus a machine is the best combination" — Kasparov

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#224
post #184

One thing that makes me skeptical is the lack of specific labels on the first two accuracy graphs. They just say it's a "log scale", without giving even a ballpark on the amount of time it took. Did the 80% accuracy test results take 10 seconds of compute? 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 days? It's impossible to say with the data they've given us. The coding section indicates "ten hours to solve six challenging algorithmic…

People have been celebrating the fact that tokens got 100x cheaper and now here's a new system that will use 100x more tokens.

Also you now have to pay for tokens you can't see, and just have to trust that OpenAI is using them economically.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#225

Just did some preliminary testing on decrypting some ROT cyphertext which would have been viable for a human on paper. The output was pretty disappointing: lots of "workish" steps creating letter counts, identifying common words, etc, but many steps were incorrect or not followed up on. In the end, it claimed to check its work and deliver an incorrect solution that did not satisfy the previous steps. I'm not one to j…

It's RL so that means it's going to be great on tasks they created for training but not so much on others.

Impressive but the problem with RL is that it requires knowledge of the future.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#226

The progress in AI is incredibly depressing, at this point I don't think there's much to look forward to in life. It's sad that due to unearned hubris and a complete lack of second-order thinking we are automating ourselves out of existence. EDIT: I understand you guys might not agree with my comments. But don't you thinking that flagging them is going a bit too far?

It seems opposite to me. Imagine all the amazing technological advancements, etc. If there wasn't something like that what would you be looking forward to? Everything would be what it has already been for years. If this evolves it helps us open so many secrets of the universe.

>If there wasn't something like that what would you be looking forward to?

First of all, I don't want to be poor. I know many of you are thinking something along the lines of "I am smart, I was doing fine before, so I will definitely continue to in the future".

That's the unearned hubris I was referring to. We got very lucky as programmers, and now the gravy train seems to be coming to an end. And not just for programmers, the other white-collar and creative jobs will suffer too. The artists have already started experiencing the negative effects of AI.

EDIT: I understand you guys might not agree with my comments. But don't you thinking that flagging them is going a bit too far?

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#227

Just did some preliminary testing on decrypting some ROT cyphertext which would have been viable for a human on paper. The output was pretty disappointing: lots of "workish" steps creating letter counts, identifying common words, etc, but many steps were incorrect or not followed up on. In the end, it claimed to check its work and deliver an incorrect solution that did not satisfy the previous steps. I'm not one to j…

Hmm, are you sure it was using the o1 model and not gpt4o? I've been using the o1 model and it does consistently well at solving rotation ciphers.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#228
post #54

Sounds great, but so does their "new flagship model that can reason across audio, vision, and text in real time" announced in May. [0] [0] https://openai.com/index/hello-gpt-4o/

This one [o1/Strawberry] is available. I have it, though it's limited to 30 messages/week in ChatGPT Plus.

Dang - I don't see the model listed for me in the iOS app nor the web interface.

I'm a ChatGPT subscriber.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#229
post #87

Reading through the Chain of Thought for the provided Cipher example (go to the example, click "Show Chain of Thought") is kind of crazy...it literally spells out every thinking step that someone would go through mentally in their head to figure out the cipher (even useless ones like "Hmm"!). It really seems like slowing down and writing down the logic it's using and reasoning over that makes it better at logic, simi…

It's interesting how it basically generates a larger sample size to create a regression against. The larger the input, the larger the surface area it can compare against existing training data (implicitly through regression of course).

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#230
post #8

The model performance is driven by chain of thought, but they will not be providing chain of thought responses to the user for various reasons including competitive advantage. After the release of GPT4 it became very common to fine-tune non-OpenAI models on GPT4 output. I’d say OpenAI is rightly concerned that fine-tuning on chain of thought responses from this model would allow for quicker reproduction of their resu…

When are they going to change the name to reflect their complete change of direction? Also, what is going to be their excuse to defend themselves against copyright lawsuits if they are going to "understandably" keep their models closed?

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