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Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

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Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#221

Post by mixmastamyk »

yoavm wrote: post #216
mixmastamyk wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-disabled folks can hit all toolbar buttons sequentially in under five seconds. The point are the hieroglyphics and misleading clues.

I was looking at what they were doing, and they were not clicking on all the toolbar buttons. They clicked on correct button, except one of them that first clicked on the dropdown next to it, and then on the button. My point is that even non-technical users, without any prior knowledge of the GNOME design language, don't seem to actually find it difficult to figure this out.

You may have a uncommon idea of non-technical people. Such folks don’t know what a list view even is, and would have to have it explained. Not to mention a filesystem.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#222

Post by Jnr »

arnaudsm wrote: post #131

Gnome isn't perfect, but is the closest thing to Apple's minimalistic mindset, and surpasses MacOS imo. And it's customizable! If you're a power-user that likes having many toolbars, don't use gnome, there are other amazing DEs made for you The main strength of the Linux desktop is its diversity

I would say that it seems like Apple has somewhat abandoned MacOS and is instead fully focusing on iOS.

For me personally Gnome UI and UX is cleaner and simpler than MacOS. At the same time there are awesome community extensions that can fine tune Gnome behavior in ways MacOS users can only dream about.

I have used Gnome 2 before and while I was a bit skeptical at the launch of Gnome 3, I have embraced their approach and Gnome is currently my favorite DE by far.

I really wanted to like KDE because they implemented some technical features (fractional scaling, VRR, tearing support) years before Gnome, but it's too bloated and outdated for my liking. I rather live without some of those Wayland features that KDE support than loose the clean and less distracting looks and workflow of Gnome.

Gnome made a hard decision by going this direction and lost some users along the way, but I think that in the long term it has been worth it and has pushed Linux desktop further.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#223

Post by horsawlarway »

Kwpolska wrote: post #76
horsawlarway wrote: post #21

In no particular order, running arch with gnome and trying to reproduce the author's complaints: - List view and view options buttons, while combined, have a visually distinct hover state, highlighting each half of the button on hover, and making it very obvious (at least to me, as a 35 year old power user) that they are different. (you can see this in his screenshots). Perhaps the author has visual issues and contra…

- List view and view options buttons, while combined, have a visually distinct hover state, highlighting each half of the button on hover, and making it very obvious (at least to me, as a 35 year old power user) that they are different. (you can see this in his screenshots). Perhaps the author has visual issues and contrast is an issue? If so - agreed, perhaps my largest complaint with gnome is that contrast is low b…

He didn't add paths like "Downloads" or "Desktop" or "Pictures" or "Videos". They exist by default.

And this

"you will learn its path once and remember it."

Is tiresomely ironic, because it applies to literally every complaint in his list.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#224

Post by horsawlarway »

troupo wrote: post #45
horsawlarway wrote: post #21

In no particular order, running arch with gnome and trying to reproduce the author's complaints: - List view and view options buttons, while combined, have a visually distinct hover state, highlighting each half of the button on hover, and making it very obvious (at least to me, as a 35 year old power user) that they are different. (you can see this in his screenshots). Perhaps the author has visual issues and contra…

> List view and view options buttons, while combined, That's it. You could've stopped here. They are combined . It's a button with a dropdown indicator. The user expects this to be a single control for a single set of features. Not two distinct controls for completely unrelated functionality that you have to pixel-hunt for

I mean, what user? Someone in his late sixties who grew up on Windows 3? Sure.

Someone in their twenties/thirties...? Coming from Mobile? Young teen?

I strongly suspect they all have different expectations then you. Two different hover tool tips and a distinct hover state difference on a control optimized for screen size is very much the standard there.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#225

Post by horsawlarway »

rossant wrote: post #82
horsawlarway wrote: post #24

I want to add - outside of the technical discussion here. read in the voice of jeff foxworthy --- You might be a boomer if... you unironically think "thanks gnomebama" is a good thing to make a pun out of in a ui discussion the chef's kiss is the complaint is incorrect.

As a non American person I'm unfamiliar with this expression, what does it mean and where does it come from?

It's a derogative remark from republican demographics about Barrack Obama. "Thanks nobama" was a good way to identify yourself as a maga loving fool...

Typically coming from elderly white men.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#226

Post by troad »

kaba0 wrote: post #77
troad wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But surely interacting with files is a key component of what people expect from a DE? If a DE can't handle that well, a well-designed 'Videos' app offers small consolation. I can only speak for myself, but it was a Nautilus regression that was the final straw that got me to move to KDE. (And years before that, the rapidly regressing Finder was a key factor in getting me to finally move from Mac to Linux.) Very happy…

You do realize that you can use any kind of file manager from GNOME, right? It’s just a program, just as Dolphin, which you can easily install instead. Changing DE for that is just dumb, imo.

> You do realize that you can use any kind of file manager from GNOME, right?

I respectfully point you to re-read my comment, particularly the phrase 'final straw'. Or do you really think I daily drive Linux while having somehow failed to appreciate the concept of installable software?

> Changing DE for that is just dumb, imo.

Pretty unkind and unconstructive thing to say, IMHO. I think I'll manage to sleep soundly tonight, despite my DE choices having failed to impress a stranger on the Internet.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#227

Post by eviks »

> My personal conclusion is that if this is the result of inventing "something better from first principles"

But it just isn't, for example, which first principle mandate that buttons look confusingly similar to a list so that an experienced user can't find a list view?

It's just "marketing speak" the author is right to call out, but seems like getting a bit hung up on: I mean, why would you expect some list of thoughts on design achieve this

> But shouldn't this new design paradigm produce something better?

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#228

Post by troad »

Spivak wrote: post #172
keyringlight wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defaults and first impressions matter though. As much as I think the matter of a personal computer you can make your own is worth fighting for, when a new user lands in the DE and doesn't have a great experience it's not a good solution to then say something along the lines of "go and explore N alternatives or dig through their configurations to find one that suits you" for each aspect of the DE they're going to be r…

Nautilus is a fine file manager for browsing to your downloads and documents folder which I think is really all it cares to be. We're on HN so the user-stories are getting twisted. I use GNOME as my daily driver and really like it— yeah some of their apps are shit, and some designs they made in the DE are questionable at best. But that's true of everything, any software beyond hello world will have annoyances. KDE is…

> KDE is riddled with them like swiss cheese at a gun range which is why I think it's so funny people say they're happy with it as an alternative. You're clearly fine with bad design (KDE has some of the most famously terribly designed apps) and bugs.

Are you basing this off recent experiences, or impressions from 2004? I feel like this kind of criticism is precisely what people used to say around that era, but it has been many years since I last heard anyone say that about KDE. There's fair criticism one could have of KDE, but that in particular sounds like a very dated take.

If you're hearing people say that they're happy with KDE as an alternative to Gnome, and you don't know why, maybe rather than assuming a bunch of things about them, go check out KDE? You can always spin up the latest Kubuntu in qemu.

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#229

Post by eviks »

ivanjermakov wrote: post #103
tveyben wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same kind of thing exists on Windows - for eg USB mass storage devices, ‘Eject’ and ‘Format’ are listes next to each other in the menu… One is harmless - the other potentially destructive

My favorite UX is when on Windows you mount a drive of unknown partition type (e.g. ext4) there is a popup suggesting to format it with "confirm" selected by default.

That's very dumb indeed, and no way to disable properly, I think (had to use a script that watches for the window with this same prompt texts and autoclose it to avoid catastrophic results)

Re: Gnome Files: A detailed UI examination

#230

Post by eviks »

senko wrote: post #91
continuational wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same people often complain that terminals break with "standard shortcuts" because they can't copy with ctrl-C... It does break with standard shortcuts. And worse, there's absolutely no consistency between terminal applications on which shortcuts to use. It's a mess, and complaints are warrented.

Ctrl-C sending a SIGINT to the program running in the terminal is the standard shortcut. Woe to the terminal arrogant enough to assume their precious copy/paste is more important. Now, Super-C vs Ctrl-Shift-C (across the UI), we can argue about.

The more important thing isn't "their precious", but "user precious", where terminal is just from of a million apps that copy on Ctrl-C, so there is no woe, but praise, to any terminal app that reflects this basic fact and doesn't subvert user expectations
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