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Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

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Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#221

Post by chgs »

grishka wrote: post #191
roelschroeven wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DoH means that each application does its own DNS queries, instead of using the OS's functionality. Whether that includes reading /etc/hosts is up to the application, and it looks like high profile applications like Chrome and Firefox don't read /etc/hosts. > The entire point of these technologies is to prevent your ISP and everyone else along the way from knowing which websites you visit. More correctly, the point is…

> DoH means that each application does its own DNS queries, instead of using the OS's functionality. HUH?! No! You aren't supposed to implement DNS on the application level! Most modern OSes support some form of DNS over TLS at the system level. You should use that.

You’re not but that’s the point. Google realise they don’t control the OS (in many cases) and thus struggle to monetise it.

I don’t have a problem with doing dns lookups over http, or any other protocol you want to use, if I configure my OS resolver to do that.

When people don’t like DoH they tend to mean they have a problem with bypassing the OS.

Theres then the concept of DoH, network admins have a harder job blocking it without MitMing traffic (and in some cases installing new root certificates and thus reducing security for users).

I’m less concerned about that. The argument for DoH often goes to “I don’t trust my network but I do trust Google” but I can see why some don’t trust their network. Personally I’d tunnel all traffic if I were on an untrusted network.

As someone who doesn’t trust Google (as their income comes from selling my personal data against my will) but does trust my network (as I am the network admin) I lean in the “anti DoH” camp, but regardless of which camp, DNS should be configured at the OS level (whether that’s a manual choice to use Google or cloudflare or whatever, or to accept the network hints)

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#222

Post by chgs »

XlA5vEKsMISoIln wrote: post #99
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every new web API should guarantee that it doesn't provide more fingerprinting data or hides the data behind a permission. FWIW, it's practically impossible to provide that guarantee because the API necessarily provides at least the data point of, "Did they select an option in the permission notification?" ("If yes, what option was selected?" etc.) It's often said that the only solution to this is regulation and th…

> API necessarily provides at least the data point of, "Did they select an option in the permission notification?" If a bird app (or, heck, pancake recipe site) asked for WebRTC or GPU access I would be rightfully suspicious. It's a shame these things don't happen.

They do ask for location data, and it tends to mostly work - sites like openstreetmap will ask for it when you press the right button for example, which makes sense.

There is a risk that it ends up like cookie banners, and the adtech industry manages to brainwash the world into thinking that the government is the bad guy and they just want some harmless data to share with their 1,345 best friends and they are “forced” to show these. Despite there being no requirement at all to track data, and they break the law with it anyway so why bother.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#223

Post by chgs »

fendy3002 wrote: post #166
raybb wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any recent examples? It's more often I see websites that claim they don't work with firefox but actually do if you change your user agent.

I cannot open message in LinkedIn with Firefox linux. Haven't pinpoint the error cause though

I have no problem with anything on LinkedIn with Firefox/linux.

I have one internal corporate site which won’t work with Firefox for some reason, but never had any problems elsewhere.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#224

Post by chgs »

tristan957 wrote: post #209
squarefoot wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sane company would then give the boot to their overpaid CEO and hire back talented developers. https://lunduke.locals.com/post/5053290/mozilla-2023-annual-...

Lunduke is a known right wing propagandist. Engaging with any of his content is a waste of time.

There’s a massive overlap between right wing activists and anti-Firefox commentators

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#225

Post by chgs »

reaperducer wrote: post #69
JohnFen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or your favorite websites won't work If my favorite websites stop working with Firefox, they won't be my favorite websites anymore. I'll just stop using them instead.

I'll just stop using them instead. Easily said, until it's your bank, or a government entity, or the electric company, or any of the thousands of other entities that have started blocking Firefox. Firefox should really camouflage its user agent, or make it trivial to do so.

My bank and electric company don’t block Firefox, not sure why they would, but it’s not like there’s no competition.

My government certainly won’t do that, they have a strong open data background.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#226

Post by dspillett »

chgs wrote: post #218
dspillett wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point of DoH is to take control of DNS from ISPs (and related middlemen) and give it back to site/service owners (so their settings are not overridden for whatever reason) and the end-user (so their habits are not as easy to disrupt or track at the ISP level). > but the one that bypasses the OS was forced by adtech monopolist in charge. Assuming by “adtech monopolist in charge” you mean Google, I don't think…

If it was implemented at an OS level and respected standard configuration then fine, DoH, DoT, whatever, I’m happy. However it wasn’t, and it doesn’t defer to the OS or the network. I can’t set a dhcp option on my network to tell my dozens of clients what dns server to use, I have to manually adjust each browser. I additionally get different reaults depending what I use, my browser will contact a different server tha…

> I can’t set a dhcp option on my network to tell my dozens of clients what dns server to use, I have to manually adjust each browser.

But at that point, you are effectively the ISP trying to control how users do DNS, in a way that might enable you to track/block/redirect. You might be trustworthy to your users so that is fine, but that isn't the case for every user's relationship with their service providers.

Is there an arrangement that would stop less trusted networks from tracking/redirecting/blocking DNS requests without (accidentally) helping AdTech by making DNS-based blocking harder?

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#227

Post by chgs »

jjulius wrote: post #76
JohnFen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Easily said, until it's your bank, or a government entity, or the electric company Still easily said, since I don't use the websites for any of those things anyway. If it's really important, or involves very sensitive personal information, I'm not doing it on the web. > or make it trivial to do so. There are extensions that make this very trivial.

This is my approach, as well. And if I absolutely had to use their web service? Well, keep the bank in my Chrome bookmarks bar, and only go there when I'm in Chrome. Head on back to Firefox when I'm done doing whatever it is that I needed to do.

It’s probably a good idea to have a separate browner for your bank anyway, on a seperate user account, probably a separate VM.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#228

Post by chgs »

dspillett wrote: post #226
chgs wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was implemented at an OS level and respected standard configuration then fine, DoH, DoT, whatever, I’m happy. However it wasn’t, and it doesn’t defer to the OS or the network. I can’t set a dhcp option on my network to tell my dozens of clients what dns server to use, I have to manually adjust each browser. I additionally get different reaults depending what I use, my browser will contact a different server tha…

> I can’t set a dhcp option on my network to tell my dozens of clients what dns server to use, I have to manually adjust each browser. But at that point, you are effectively the ISP trying to control how users do DNS, in a way that might enable you to track/block/redirect. You might be trustworthy to your users so that is fine, but that isn't the case for every user's relationship with their service providers. Is the…

As I run the OS I can choose to accept the hint or override the dns servers.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#229

Post by _Algernon_ »

dheera wrote: post #154
AyyEye wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is a Google vassal and nothing more. Google analytics? Check. Firefox Safebrowsing sending your private tab traffic to google? Of course! https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox Mozilla only has their Google billion$ in mind, not you. https://digdeeper.neocities.org/articles/mozilla

> Google analytics? Check. Add this to /etc/hosts 0.0.0.0 www.google-analytics.com 0.0.0.0 google-analytics.com 0.0.0.0 ssl.google-analytics.com

Firefox doesn't respect hosts by default. An about:config option needs to be toggled for this to work.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#230

Post by dingdingdang »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #16
cabbageicefruit wrote: post #11

Damn. If there was ever any doubt about why you should get off chrome, this seems to put an end to that.

Shed a tear for the Firefox that could have been

LibreWolf is my only installed edition of Firefox, similar to Brave in place of Chrome.
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