Earlier quoted context omitted.
larrikin : 1. (Australia, New Zealand, slang, dated) A brash and impertinent, possibly violent, troublemaker, especially a youth; a hooligan. 2. (Australia, slang) A high-spirited person who playfully rebels against authority and conventional norms. Today I learned a new word.
See also "Wowser", the opposite side of the coin. At some point it seems the wowsers gained the upper hand. What's left of larrikinism unfortunately seems to be cooked in the head these days. Australian politics is sorely in need of some decent larrikins, but they seem to be AWOL.
Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
221–230 of 496 posts
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
Surely it can't cost much more to go for a larger eMMC chip and have it massively over-provisioned with plenty of space for wear levelling? The underlying flash memory is trash and the controller already does a ton of heavy lifting to keep the data coherent.
I don't think the problem is necessarily space, but rather write-limits being used by superfluous logging
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#223Unfortunately, if/when someone from the manufacturer knows about it their first thought will not be "How do we make it easier for our customers". It will most likely be "How do we restrict this hack" and will eventually get into more restricted/quirky hardware & software.
They would have to put the condition inside shared library .so and use Android JNI. Make it complicated and hide the string tablet model throughout the code, just enough time to frustrate whoever is decompiling the so file.
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
The "PoE"[0] board was also a USB device wired onto the pins for the single USB port on the board. USB is not a multidrop bus - if you directly wire two devices to a single USB port it will not work, you need an active USB hub. [0]quotes because looking at that FTDI chip though my bet is it's actually serial over Cat5...
I think it is some sort of serial comm over cat5. My only concern was getting the thing working again :) But if still interested here is a close up of the chip side of the POE connector: https://blog.hopefullyuseful.com/blog/advantage-air-ezone-ta...
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#225Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#226Ugh. The whole "smart aircon" industry needs a good-sized asteroid wiping them out of the existence. There is a very real need for modern variable-speed units, and vendors just keep fucking it up by using proprietary protocols locked into their ecosystem. TRANE in the US is similar. And this is really annoying because variable-speed pumps solve all the problems with short cycling and oversized systems.
While it would be nice for the protocol to be documented (would realistically only be used by a very small number of users), the only real way you would be able to get a standard for something like this to work is if you went the Bluetooth route and did generic scenario-based profiles (e.g. HFP, A2DP, SPP), and optionally some "GATT" or "generic attribute" parameters. However, as we see with Bluetooth LE, everyone just uses GATT and implements their own little proprietary thing over it and you're back to the same problem.
Some of these systems attempt to be "smart" and just use the 24V C/W/Y1/Y2 etc protocol as a "standards compliant fallback". You don't necessarily lose ALL of the smarts, but the unit has to essentially use physics magic to make an educated guess about the information (for example, if you use a on-off thermostat, you can't really measure the temperature of the setpoint, so you don't know how close you are unless you somehow make an observation over many cycles.
I think that reasonable attempts to address this problem could involve some kind of extension to the old 24V interface - say, by offloading the actual "policy" part of system control to the "thermostat" i.e. have something that goes from 0-10V where 5V is off, 0V is full cooling and 10V is full heating. This allows you to choose your own temperature sensor situation, but complicates setups where more than one zone or thermostat is required. Of course, it will be very difficult for the industry to settle on a solution to this. Qualcomm's Quick Charge 2.0 was a very simple protocol similar to this, which was essentially self-documenting and not something that needed versioning, but of course, needs changed, 3.0 came and went, 4.0 came and went, and by the time USB C and USB PD came around you ended up with a full on data protocol API with all the OSI layers and of course, vendor specific extensions.
You could define some complicated protocol where you don't conform to a standard but you publish an API for your system (of course, there is no incentive to do this), and larger vendors like Control4 or Lutron, Crestron can program their products to interface with it. Unfortunately this doesn't allow the customer full choice over thermostats, because now you have to deal with N vendors x N thermostat vendors, which isn't scalable and you'll end up in dependency hell.
The closest thing I can think of to a standard, and the way it is solved in larger buildings, is through something called BACnet. It appears to use the Bluetooth model of "scenario based profiles", with all of the disadvantages that come with that, but the primary disadvantage is that it has to be to some degree manually configured to route data where it needs to go - and I don't think this is something installers are currently equipped to do at home scale.
Realistically, the "thermostat" is just a vestigial component in modern terms and really, it's just a user interface and thermometer now. Without getting into the wish to have open sourced app control or whatever, it's hard to define what the "thermostat" does and what the "system" is doing, and whether the device that sits on the wall is really a "thermostat" deserving of being interchangeable anyway. I have heard from a friend that does home automation integration that many clients don't like the default thermostat because it doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing. In this case, I'm definitely sympathetic to the need for customizability but it seems difficult to achieve in practice.
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Timezone effect, I think. Just us and the whole of East Asia online now. The Poms and Europeans are just about to wake up, and the Americans have logged off for the night.
This is exactly right! Good morning from Europe. :) Also congrats to the OP! Sadly, european aircon appliances are usually built the same way (last only as long as the warranty).
(in fact, replacing basic central heating thermostats with a tablet device has been very successful for one energy company in my country, see https://www.eneco.nl/energieproducten/toon-thermostaat/; it wouldn't have been possible if the thermostat data thing was some complicated / encrypted nonsense)
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#228OMFG; I am in Perth, I have the same system, the very same problem and solved it almost the same way and was in the process of writing it up. The system uses RS422, with a base64 encoded AES key in the aaservice binary, and I was contemplating building an esp32 based open source implementation of the controller. That's a crazy weird coincidence.
Almost like all the tablets fail around the same time because they're made in the same shoddy way, forcing system replacements every so many years...
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#229I installed AC in my home in the last year. I specifically went for units that were IR controlled rather than any proprietary smart B.S. For the smarts, I used cheap IR blasters from AliExpress and hooked them up to HomeAssistant. I just mounted cheap Lenovo tablets to the wall to do the room-dashboard thing to allow controlling lights/AC without a phone. These kind of horror stories only serve to reinforce my decisi…
Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm offering you a different viewpoint: They made the analysis, how long the flash will live and saw, that it will make it out of the warranty period. Thus they did not opt for more durable and expensive flash and/or software change. I've seen this myself before. One process step before release of the control module was a write cycle analysis to make sure the unit will live for at least 10 years (i think) before the…
You're both missing one of the more likely explanation.. that nobody gave much thought about how long the device would last. "It's solid state electronics, it'll probably outlast the warranty anyway".. I can imagine an aircon company puts a lot of effort into analyzing the air-conditioning unit itself to make sure it lasts at least as long as the warranty, with good margin. But I can totally see them winging it on an…
Also, their claim is that they're not outsourcing. If you check their website, it claims everything is designed and manufactured in Australia.
Nevertheless, I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt if it were not for:
1. The only option being a full system replacement.
2. Communication protocol being encrypted.
3. App being locked down to certain hard-coded models.
None of these give me any hope that this is a well-meaning company that just has some issues.
Also, I think a company that sells a product most customers would only buy once or twice in their lives is not a company that expects many repeat customers.