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Toasts are bad UX

maxschmitt.me

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Re: Toasts are bad UX

#221

Post by lolinder »

exmadscientist wrote: post #217
lolinder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are badly implemented toasts that have bad UX. That's not the same thing as the whole concept being bad.

If something is so hard to implement that everyone who tries gets it wrong (to a first approximation), then maybe the concept is bad. Or, at least, the concept isn't fully baked and is missing something critical.

Most implementations of toasts-with-actions that I've seen don't have the problem OP described. I more often find myself manually dismissing them than wishing they'd have stuck around longer.

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#222

Post by lolinder »

digging wrote: post #215
TeMPOraL wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But adding a toast isn't free. It's a distraction, and arguably a pretty intense one for ND folks -- especially when it becomes a standardized message center with multiple items queued up. Diagnosed with ADHD, so I'm guessing an ND folk here: modern applications in general, and webshit in particular, give me huge anxiety because of all the eventual consistency and optimistic actions bullshit[0], coupled with flakin…

> Maybe "toasts" aren't the bee's knees, but they work as lagging indicator that something happened that I otherwise wouldn't notice, and in some apps even lets me undo the unwanted operation. That does a lot to relieve my anxiety and help me use software with less frustration. All things that a message log does better than toasts!

Why not both? A message log can always be consulted later, but it doesn't give you a live feed of things that are happening.

I'm also ADHD and, like OP, I appreciate having the stream of toasts that lets me know what the software did. It's saved my butt a bunch of times when I accidentally do something I didn't mean to (deleting instead of archiving, for example). A message log would just get ignored, but toasts help a ton because they're visible.

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#223

Post by leke »

I think it's a middle path thing. I like toast error messages but for simple confirmation actions like Saved, Deleted and Copied, the text change is better. HTMX makes this really easy to do :)

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#224

Post by fortran77 »

Watching my 91 year old mother try to use a computer, I can see that messages that flash up and then disappear are extremely bad for individuals with slower reaction and processing times.

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#225

Post by dejawu »

The worst toast I've seen is on Android Auto (itself already a veritable petri dish of awful UX) where, when the on-screen keyboard appears, a toast helpfully pops up informing you that a keyboard is also available on your phone... Thus blocking the on-screen keyboard from being used until the toast fades (and no, tapping it does not dismiss it).

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#227

Post by quectophoton »

leke wrote: post #223

I think it's a middle path thing. I like toast error messages but for simple confirmation actions like Saved, Deleted and Copied, the text change is better. HTMX makes this really easy to do :)

I like error messages that I can copy-paste without worrying that they might disappear too fast, or worse, when I click on it. Also error messages that I can screenshot to show someone else without having to hurry because it might disappear after 50ms.

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#228

Post by zahlman »

hunter2_ wrote: post #190
CRConrad wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bah, you think you were confused? I thought it was about toasting, as in with drinks. (Yeah sure, "Are Bad UX" -- but since when is "Cheers!" a software metaphor? Weird AF.)

Seems like it could live among these: > We currently demand that users internalize several metaphors when interacting with Homebrew. These include: > Formula (how to build a bit of software) > Bottle (pre-built software) > Cask (pre-built software on macOS) > Tap (a collection of software) > Keg (where software installs itself) > Cellar (where all my software install themselves) > As well as an additional number of l…

It seems like they put a lot of effort into trying to create a coherent extended metaphor, yet it doesn't make any sense. You create a tap by putting bottles and casks together, and then it puts itself into a keg? Your own cellar is a prototype for someone else's keg?

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#229

Post by rkagerer »

Toasts would be alright if they showed up in a dedicated portion of the UI (eg. status bar) which had a notification history so that you don't feel like you're racing a clock to read an unwanted popup trying to steal your attention.

Re: Toasts are bad UX

#230

Post by JamesSwift »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #56
marcodiego wrote: post #53

There things worse than toasts: hidden slide panels. They are basically hidden toasts that are necessary for some actions and are completely unintuitive, unfindable and undiscoverable. My worst experience was with waze using the cellphone of someone else; I had to do something (don't remember what) and just stared at the screen (like a retard) trying to guess what I had to do; the person eventually got the phone, sli…

I think most "toasts" (now I know the word for it!) are redundant and useless. I usually completely miss them. I think they are generally "harmless," but they should not be used to convey crucial information. As for the "hidden panel," I have always assumed that this is a bug, but someone may have thought it was a good idea: I use the Apple Connect App (for managing apps on the App Store) frequently. If I use it on m…

Apple's non-hotpath UX (and even UI) is incredibly bad. The entire experience configuring icloud and family sharing on a Mac is like entering another dimension with no relation to the surrounding OS.
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