Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

berthub.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 258 posts

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#221

Post by [deleted] »

Spivak wrote: post #53
m463 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why can't people just make stuff and sell it?

Because humans are an ongoing cost and no one has figured how to sell non-consumable slowly depreciating goods as one-off purchases and keep paying your employees once you saturate your market. Option 1: Artificially sell the thing as an ongoing cost. Option 2: Artificially make the depreciation cycle faster. Get consumers to regularly replace it anyway with upgrades or trend changes. Option 3: Make ongoing money fro…

[deleted]

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#222

Post by yetihehe »

titzer wrote: post #214
yetihehe wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fairly standard, and easy to follow--like the manual for putting together a piece of furniture. And people still have problems following that instructions. We gave a lot of instructions, but some people just don't read them. Or can't understand and follow them. Example from this week: Yeah, main support guy for our client is on holidays this week and only a girl from sales is available and she doesn't know why our…

> no one told her she needs to message us Did you have that written down somewhere? In instructions , which was my point. Sorry for the snark, but I think "no one knows how to do anything" coupled with "Oh, the idiot didn't know to discombulate the canooter valve before inserting into the tinklerater--it's so obvious we didn't write it down" supports the point I'm making.

This was custom configuration process tailored specifically for that one client and it was written in a detailed instruction with each step tested and with screenshots. Apparently that instruction was not distributed internally at our client office. So mere existence of instructions is not often enough, you will still get very confusing calls about how to attach toaster to 36V to charge a wallet (when you did not send any toasters or wallets and client just wants your premade pizza).

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#223

Post by mapt »

Retric wrote: post #126
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that the important metric to consider is peak output and not average output, I would still guess that in a country like the Netherlands that peak output is nowhere near nameplate capacity.

You can get close to peak output just about anywhere, assuming the panels are angled rather than laying flat. You just can’t get it for very long in most locations.

The new method this past year that appears to be highly beneficial is to use various compass orientations of _vertically_ mounted panels. The solar cells got so cheap that every penny we spend on mounting hardware and rigid paneling now stings, and posts driven vertically into the ground which string cables tight between them are cheaper than triangles, way easier to maintain (especially in places with winter), and trade a lower peak (or even a bimodal peak) for a much wider production curve.

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#224

Post by jpc0 »

applied_heat wrote: post #167
ethbr1 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> medium caliber semi-automatic rifle Technically, anything that can put a hole in an oil-filled transformer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_types#Liquid-coo... You don't need to break it... just crack the radiator enough for all the circulating fluid to drain, then it overheats.

Any transformer over about 5 MVA will probably be equipped with a low oil level switch that de-energizes it

If all you wantes was to kill the power I don't see the difference...

Sure the repair is easier/quicker but the economic damage was already done...

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#226

Post by kkfx »

ansgri wrote: post #212
kkfx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victron (to cite an NL vendor) actually can perfectly operate in LAN only via MQTT and ModBUS also offering a (bad) WebUI locally for settings pretty anything, including a display for the said WebUI in a framebuffer with an embedded mini-keyboard. It's up to the installer decide to go with their cloud offer or not. The sole remark I have against them (beside the not so good software quality it's the impossibility for…

I'm not a pro in these systems ( yet , I hope), but my understanding is that, beside lack of demand, HVDC is a safety nightmare compared to AC, and inverters are getting more efficient each year. So, even given the choice, I'd keep AC home-wide distribution and set up inverters in key places, with exactly the highest required voltage.

Well, yes DC is unsafe because if you get electrocuted instead of being "pushed out" you get "attached" to the conductors, but if you have a p.v. inverter at home you already have a 400V DC line from the module to the inverter, how different can be having the same to the garage? The same to an exterior heat-pump unit (where the DC compressor it's typically located) witch is also insulated by the mere fact you drive it via a remote?

Aside I'm not much an expert as well but, from DC to AC we are pretty efficient, around 98% of energy get converted. But the other way round it's pretty inefficient, meaning a loss around 30%. So while your p.v. it's pretty efficient in generating AC, your car it's pretty inefficient generating DC from AC to recharge. You heat pump would gain as well.

To be clear I do not advocate DC for any DC home appliance like washing machines or dishwashers, just for energy intensive appliances like big heat pumps and car chargers. Not more.

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#227

Post by ale42 »

automatic6131 wrote: post #220
huijzer wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t underestimate exponentials. Tesla produced 6.5 GWh of battery storage in 2022, 14.7 GWh in 2023, and will probably double again in 2024. And other battery manufacturers such as BYD grow fast too.

Always underestimate exponentials: none exist in nature, they're just an early phase of an S curve (sigmoid, if you want the $10 word)

Which is kind of normal, we don't need infinite batteries ;-)

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#228

Post by dpedu »

berkes wrote: post #195
dpedu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt that that many watts is easy to cover - eventually. The problem is that it can be instantly turned on and off, whereas the grid takes time to shed load or add capacity. I found a figure on Wikipedia saying that the NL's 4.7GW worth of offshore wind capacity is 16% of their total electricity demand nationwide. 4.7/.16 = 30GW total, so this theorized computer load attack would represent about 10% of their…

You skipped over the part where I point out that my assumptions are completely off. These numbers presume that all computers in all Dutch households are hacked, running and connected to the internet. 5% of that would be on the high side even. So a more realistic "attack" would be able to move demand, 0.5% of the total grid capacity. Switching on/off one smelter in an aluminium factory, is probably more than that. Hac…

According to World Population Review and corroborated by other sources, the Netherlands has 91 PCs per 100 people. So your assumptions aren't that far off, actually. If anything, your assumption is lower than reality because a household is defined as 2 or more people.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/computers...

Re: The gigantic and unregulated power plants in the cloud

#230

Post by ansgri »

kkfx wrote: post #226
ansgri wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a pro in these systems ( yet , I hope), but my understanding is that, beside lack of demand, HVDC is a safety nightmare compared to AC, and inverters are getting more efficient each year. So, even given the choice, I'd keep AC home-wide distribution and set up inverters in key places, with exactly the highest required voltage.

Well, yes DC is unsafe because if you get electrocuted instead of being "pushed out" you get "attached" to the conductors, but if you have a p.v. inverter at home you already have a 400V DC line from the module to the inverter, how different can be having the same to the garage? The same to an exterior heat-pump unit (where the DC compressor it's typically located) witch is also insulated by the mere fact you drive i…

Valid points, though for safety I thought less about shock and more about fire: the DC arc is much more stable, thus the switches, breakers and relays have to be more robust. The rated DC voltage of magnetic relays is about 1/10 of AC.
Post reply on HN