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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#221

Post by mihaaly »

jtriangle wrote: post #3

Headline makes it sound like it's intentional, like Boeing knows the moon's haunted and wants to prevent people from going. Turns out they're just a giant company suckling on the teat of mommy government and have developed severe structural dysfunction that prevents them from effectively executing their plans.

Title of The Economists article form April:

> Can anyone pull Boeing out of its nosedive?

Apparently the answer is a sound no.

They decided to proudly shoot themselves into the stomach, then mitigating the situation by setting themselves on fire.

The inspector general is wrong saying "blame on the aerospace giant’s mismanagement and inexperienced workforce". How can someone blame clueless person? The blame is on those putting clueless person there in the first place. Or is the management the most inexperienced and clueless of all for this line of job perhaps?! As suspected for many many years now. Ajh!!

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#222

Post by mihaaly »

zugi wrote: post #46

> For example, Boeing Defense’s Earned Value Management System (EVMS)—which NASA uses to measure contract cost and schedule progress ... has been disapproved by the Department of Defense since 2020. Officials claim this precludes Boeing from reliably predicting an EUS delivery date. Interesting that instead of commenting on engineering or technology issues, this is basically NASA bureaucrats complaining about Boeing…

I feel that in this situation the balme is valid. Engineering was spot on until management threw it out the window as something in the way for making money.

They wanted to make things for sales, not for use. Usability is the side effect for sellable for them apparently: sometimes happen, sometimes not. While they were pushing on with sell sell sell sell sell, sell nooow! Instead of making something that is needed and is usable, so people would want to buy.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#223

Post by lupusreal »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #155
wmf wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of SLS is to create high-paying jobs and they just... didn't. Imagine having a blank check and cheaping out. Amazing.

If you can get away with the share buybacks and other self enrichment, with no accountability mechanisms, this is a natural outcome based on who is in charge of these companies. But, if we were to have made these workers government employees to pay them the desired wages (and cut out the management and shareholder middlemen) as well as “pay, train, retrain”, we would have been laughed at as promoting government waste…

NASA has piss all experience hiring and keeping the best fabricators, the government uses contractors to build things. The problem is with this contractor being rotten and NASA not being willing to kick them to the curb.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#224

Post by esskay »

andy_ppp wrote: post #220

Sack all the managers at Boeing and watch everything work better…

Honestly think we're beyond that now. They need stripping of all government contracts - obviously not in one go as theres currently no alternatives in many cases. They certainly should be banned from being involved in anything going forwards.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#225

Post by klabb3 »

sgnelson wrote: post #100
mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

If you read the OIG report, it states: "Michoud officials stated that it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce with aerospace manufacturing experience in part due to Michoud’s geographical location in New Orleans, Louisiana, and lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors."

> it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce […] in part due to […] lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors

You’re building rockets and complaining about the cost of skilled labor?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#226

Post by Paradigma11 »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #180
Dalewyn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want to deny it, but both Apollo and Space Shuttle were the results of there being a Fucking War(tm) that had to be won at any cost. Nowadays, that specific motivator is squarely with the Chinese.

But what wars has China started though in order for us to be afraid of them? If I look at the current score board in the last decades, US has invaded more counties than China (have they found those WMDs yet?), yet somehow we're (us non Americans in the west) are supposed to fear China, because reasons? Honestly, my biggest enemy right now is my own EU government who has done the biggest damage to our country and beca…

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line.

While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chinese interests.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#227

Post by Rinzler89 »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #226
Rinzler89 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what wars has China started though in order for us to be afraid of them? If I look at the current score board in the last decades, US has invaded more counties than China (have they found those WMDs yet?), yet somehow we're (us non Americans in the west) are supposed to fear China, because reasons? Honestly, my biggest enemy right now is my own EU government who has done the biggest damage to our country and beca…

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chines…

>China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line.

Populist words are cheap. I'll start blaming China for warmongering when they actually put boots on the ground. Meanwhile how many dorne strikes has the US made in the middle east without any consequences?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#228

Post by thanksgiving »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191
wmf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Space companies will never adopt fixed price. NASA just needs to drop them.

> Old Space companies will never adopt fixed price Starliner is fixed cost.

> Starliner is fixed cost.

It sounds like you agree that Boeing is failing to adopt to fixed cost?

Just from pop culture, isn't starliner that thing that leaves people stranded for a year after making them shed "excess" baggage for a supposedly weeklong(?) trip?

Also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Starliner

> Boeing has lost more than $1.5 billion in budget overruns on the Starliner project which has been marred by delays, management issues and engineering challenges. The price paid per flight has also drawn criticism from NASA's inspector general and from observers who point to significantly lower costs on the competing Crew Dragon.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#229

Post by andy_ppp »

esskay wrote: post #224
andy_ppp wrote: post #220

Sack all the managers at Boeing and watch everything work better…

Honestly think we're beyond that now. They need stripping of all government contracts - obviously not in one go as theres currently no alternatives in many cases. They certainly should be banned from being involved in anything going forwards.

I work at a company like this where management self interest has taken over and the staff have zero power to say no. It makes everything impossible if I’m honest, the 200 layers of management might as well be using a magic 8 ball to run the company.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#230

Post by defrost »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #226
Rinzler89 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what wars has China started though in order for us to be afraid of them? If I look at the current score board in the last decades, US has invaded more counties than China (have they found those WMDs yet?), yet somehow we're (us non Americans in the west) are supposed to fear China, because reasons? Honestly, my biggest enemy right now is my own EU government who has done the biggest damage to our country and beca…

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chines…

> and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line.

FWiW :

    The Republic of China (ROC), or simply China, was a sovereign state based in mainland China from 1912 until its government's retreat in 1949 to Taiwan, where it is now based.

    The nine-dash line, also referred to as the eleven-dash line by Taiwan, is a set of line segments on various maps that accompanied the claims of the People's Republic of China (PRC, "mainland China") and the Republic of China (ROC, "Taiwan") in the South China Sea.

    A 1946 map showing a U-shaped eleven-dash line was first published by the Republic of China government on 1 December 1947.
The area has always been claimed, whether by the ROC, the PRC, or indeed under Puyi, who had reigned as the Xuantong Emperor of the Qing dynasty.

The issue is that "Western" sea faring nations self selected themselves as arbitrators of global borders, including those of regions with governance dating back 4,000 years.

    On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal organized under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) concluded that China had not exercised exclusive and continuous control over the [ dashed zones ]

    Over 20 governments have called for the ruling to be respected.
    It was rejected by eight governments, including China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%...

China and Taiwan have always claimed the regions within the nine dashed line.

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