Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 379 posts

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#221

Post by eddd-ddde »

ekidd wrote: post #100
jedberg wrote: post #29

They changed robots.txt a month or so ago. For the first 19 years of life, reddit had a very permissive robots.txt. We allowed all by default and then only restricted certain poorly behaved agents (and Bender's Shiny Metal Ass(tm)) But I can understand why they made the change they did. The data was being abused. My guess is that this was an oversight -- that they will do an audit and reopen it for search engines aft…

I personally feel that this kind of "exclusive search only by Google deal" should result in an anti-trust case against Google. This is the kind of abuse of monopoly power that caused anti-trust laws to be passed in the 1890s.

if i create a vacuum cleaner and decide to only sell it at Walmart you can't get mad at me for not wanting to sell it at costco

you can always buy a competitor's or make your own vacuum cleaner if you hate buying at Walmart

maybe what you are really mad about is Reddit monopolising content

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#222

Post by qingcharles »

StrauXX wrote: post #164

IANAL but as far as I understand the current legal status (in the US) a change in robots.txt or terms and conditions is not binding for web scrapers since the data is publicly accessible. Neither does displaying a banner "By using this site you accept our terms and conditions" change anything about that. The only thing that can make these kinds of terms binding is if the data is only accessible after proactively acce…

At the federal level; but states have their own laws. For instance, it can get you 5 years in prison in Illinois to violate a web site ToS.

https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=0720...

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#223

Post by eddd-ddde »

daft_pink wrote: post #102

I don’t understand how this isn’t anti-competitive behavior. It seems like reddit has to offer this deal with similar terms to google’s competitors.

I don't see how this tracks at all. Companies can decide to only sell their products with some retailer if they want. You can't force them to make deals with other companies.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#224

Post by visarga »

pas wrote: post #197
dogleash wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> # Reddit believes in an open internet, but not the misuse of public content. Calling it "public" content in the very act of exercising their ownership over it. The balls on whoever wrote that.

it's even worse. it's not theirs (it's the users'), they are merely hosting it and using it (ToS gives them a fancy irrevocable license I guess). so they can do whatever they want with it and the actual owners/authors have no chance to really influence Reddit at all to make it crawlable. (the GDPR-like data takeout is nice, but ... completely useless in these cases where the value is in the composition and aggregatio…

> the GDPR like data takeout is nice

Is there a way to export my history? How?

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#225

Post by BeetleB »

TeaBrain wrote: post #105
BeetleB wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people will hate to hear this, but Reddit it's not important to the A well being of the Internet.

I think it's the other way around, in that people don't like to hear how Reddit has become important due to the death of independent forums and the degree to which information has become concentrated on the site.

The death of independent forums has been greatly exaggerated.

Of all the forums I used to be active in, many are still active. The ones that died did so because the community died (i.e. they did not shift to Reddit and the like).

Reddit is great simply because it allowed anyone to create a community. No need to get a LAMP stack and deal with security vulnerabilities in your forum SW.

These days you have Lemmy and its ilk. Much higher barrier than the old LAMP stack, but also much superior to it. I do hope it takes off.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#226

Post by bitpush »

riku_iki wrote: post #188
bitpush wrote: post #178

When Microsoft strikes an exclusive deal with OpenAI to use their models, it is a smart, brilliant, clever move. When Apple strikes an exclusive deal with suppliers for parts, it is sound business practice. When Google strikes an exclusive deal with Reddit, it is .. Some of you have no idea how businesses work, and it shows.

> When Google strikes an exclusive deal with Reddit, it is .. It's because reddit is selling content created by users, base on promises that reddit supports open internet, open data, etc, without their consent and sharing revenue, which maybe legal but likely not ethical.

Let's get specific. You're confusing with copyright and licensing.

The users hold the copyright (reddit claim that they made the meme) but reddit has the non-exclusive right to redistribute and license the content.

Two different things.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#227

Post by abdullahkhalids »

AlexandrB wrote: post #185
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The API changes and these robots.txt were part of the same strategy - preventing third parties from scrapping their data and reducing the AI generated content that makes it into their data. So they can sell that data and make money.

> their data Love how it's their data when it might make them money but not their data if they get sued.

That's fair. I agree with you that in some sense it is user data. And that Reddit is operating unethically.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#228

Post by redcobra762 »

qingcharles wrote: post #222
StrauXX wrote: post #164

IANAL but as far as I understand the current legal status (in the US) a change in robots.txt or terms and conditions is not binding for web scrapers since the data is publicly accessible. Neither does displaying a banner "By using this site you accept our terms and conditions" change anything about that. The only thing that can make these kinds of terms binding is if the data is only accessible after proactively acce…

At the federal level; but states have their own laws. For instance, it can get you 5 years in prison in Illinois to violate a web site ToS. https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=0720...

Has anyone ever successfully been prosecuted for violating this statute?

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#229

Post by pas »

visarga wrote: post #224
pas wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's even worse. it's not theirs (it's the users'), they are merely hosting it and using it (ToS gives them a fancy irrevocable license I guess). so they can do whatever they want with it and the actual owners/authors have no chance to really influence Reddit at all to make it crawlable. (the GDPR-like data takeout is nice, but ... completely useless in these cases where the value is in the composition and aggregatio…

> the GDPR like data takeout is nice Is there a way to export my history? How?

https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request

(and there's some help article for it that I didn't read, but google found this first https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004304835... that's how I got to the link)

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#230

Post by riku_iki »

bitpush wrote: post #226
riku_iki wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When Google strikes an exclusive deal with Reddit, it is .. It's because reddit is selling content created by users, base on promises that reddit supports open internet, open data, etc, without their consent and sharing revenue, which maybe legal but likely not ethical.

Let's get specific. You're confusing with copyright and licensing. The users hold the copyright (reddit claim that they made the meme) but reddit has the non-exclusive right to redistribute and license the content. Two different things.

> but reddit has the non-exclusive right to redistribute and license the content.

that's what I said: it is legal.

Post reply on HN