New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#221

Post by bobbywilson0 » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

okamiueru wrote: post #209

bobbywilson0 wrote: post #206

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ... - MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair). - Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to anything inside. - As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade. - The proprietary SSD isn't upgrad…

The no scroll edition: * MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair). * Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to anything inside. * As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade. * The proprietary SSD isn't upgradeable either (yet), as it is similar but…

Thanks. I was trying to make it look as though it was quoted but looks like I failed.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#222

Post by BitMastro » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:19 PM UTC

mironathetin wrote: post #199

super_mario wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

"Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing." Yeah,... Astro-Physicist here. 90% of my colleagues use Macs and we write most of the software that controls satellites and earth bound observatories on Macs. Just an old science, entertainment, with no real or useable results :o).

I'm curious: what language do you working with? Are you using as IDE (if you are using one)?

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#223

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:19 PM UTC

tsieling wrote: post #214

Spooky23 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not an idiot, you just like Apple and have enough money not to care about getting ripped off. This design decision has nothing to do with reducing "volume, weight and cost". It has everything to do with hosing the customer on memory, as that has been a very lucrative business on the iPad.

Ripped off is subjective. I want someone else to take care of that stuff for me, so that makes Apple's direction a good one for me. I don't like tinkering with my computer, I don't like fucking around with it to make it do what I need. I do what I do with it and it works, it works better than any of the heap of garbage PCs that I sunk countless hours into before I switched. That's why I use it, and I'm neither an idi…

I didn't level a slur at you, and as I said, I don't think that you're an idiot. Just wealthy.

Before, you had the ability to go to the Apple store or website and have them "take care of" your memory woes at point of purchase. They charge like $500 for an $100 memory stick.

Most people call paying 5x more for a commodity product "a ripoff".

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#224

Post by Symmetry » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:20 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #116

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

You're mostly right here, but making things specialized to the extent that Apple is doing here often makes things more expensive. If you go the specialized route instead of using commodity hardware there's going to be a big upfront price. Its possible that reduced packaging could make up for that in some cases, but I'm skeptical. There are also some changes that Apple makes simply to prevent user serviceability, like special Apple only screws, that don't help with weight and only serve to increase the price.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#225

Post by lbraasch » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:20 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #216

lbraasch wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you forgot to pot it in epoxy first.

They only do that in the EU and US. Usually from what I understand in Europe at least, they pack them, mail them to an EU border country such as Turkey to comply with EU regs and certification and they're shipped on to the far east by the lowest bidder. They then appear in land fills and are picked apart by children for the copper...

FYI:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/recycling_batteri...

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#226

Post by super_mario » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:20 PM UTC

mironathetin wrote: post #199

super_mario wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

"Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing." Yeah,... Astro-Physicist here. 90% of my colleagues use Macs and we write most of the software that controls satellites and earth bound observatories on Macs. Just an old science, entertainment, with no real or useable results :o).

Mathematician and software developer here (and the guy you are responding to) and ALL my personal computers are Macs too. I criticize Apple's direction because I sincerely do not think it is good for the future of general purpose computing. The software you write for your scientific computing might become "illegal" if Apple gets it their way, and you will first have to pay Apple a cut before you can run it, or it may become plain impossible to program your computer at all. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. If computers become locked down appliances you won't be able to or expected to run custom code on them either.

How many people expect to compile and run stuff on their iPad? None, but it's a perfectly capable machine, more powerful than PCs of the 90s.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#227

Post by 51Cards » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:21 PM UTC

brockhand wrote: post #185

51Cards wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... while it's under warranty. Pay through the nose when it's not because it can't be serviced anywhere else. Simply put, would you buy a car that once beyond the warranty had to have brakes, tires, battery, air filter, and spark plugs replaced ONLY at the dealership with parts at factory cost? In addition if any part broke on the engine you would have to replace the entire engine. It's not that much different. I wou…

I hear this comparison often but to me the big difference lies in the order of magnitude of cost difference. A $2,200 laptop is different than a $30,000 car for a few reasons. The largest is probably the difference in purchasing behavior. I might save up for a few weeks to buy a laptop. I might have a car note for a few years. To me that makes all of the difference. I think people should educate themselves on the pro…

For most people a $2000 laptop is a lot more than a few weeks of savings however... in fact I'd say that's true for most of the target market.

The asking people to educate themselves on this product runs directly counter to Apples marketing. Apple wants to (has) made computers an appliance and doesn't want the user to think about the insides. Asking the user to educate themselves on the internals of their Apple notebook is asking them to go back to PC style thinking, exactly what Apple has worked to kill. And now that that style of thinking is dead, they (seem to) purposely make the machine non-serviceable because no one asks anymore.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#228

Post by gouranga » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:26 PM UTC

dr42 wrote: post #220

gouranga wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, it's glued in which is considerably worse: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ... Actually, looking through the entire teardown, I think the battery being glued in is worse than anything as levering it out is likely to cause the Li-Ion cells to blow up. Also consider how hard it is recycling that machine! Their summary: 1. Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to a…

Is this rant all just some cognitive dissonance because you can't afford one? You're not thinking this through, the machine may not make sense for you because it sounds like you enjoy tinkering with the innards of a laptop, but you cannot speak for others, or try to evangelize your opinion and persuade other not to buy one. It just makes you look bitter about something. Please try to be accept that this machine is no…

Let me approach your points in a more concise and slightly less troll-like manor:

I can afford one but I choose not to spend the money on it simply because the value proposition is pure insanity.

I am not bitter at all. I find that the rapid decline into consumerism that Apple promotes is disturbing, especially when they are trend-setters. I need to stand up for what is right now so in 5 years time, all vendors aren't producing such hardware.

Apple don't think about how to recycle these machines at all - they don't care at all and never will do unless it's good marketing (which is is since Greenpeace kicked off at them that is). They send you a label to stick to it - that is all. That will send it to a 3rd party who have paid Apple a lot of money to be the "preferred recycler".

Life's never too short to promote an opinion. After all that's all we are.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#229

Post by super_mario » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:26 PM UTC

bbwharris wrote: post #187

super_mario wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

Serious computing? Like gaming? Last I checked typing text files and compiling them is more serious than most users and doesn't require massive clusters to accomplish.

If Apple gets their way, typing text and compiling it to code and running it on your appliance will become illegal. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. There will simply be no expectation of running custom code on a "computer" once it is turned into an appliance.

Look at iPad. It's more powerful than PCs of the 90s yet no one even expects to run their custom code on it. This is where Macs and OS X are headed to.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#230

Post by 51Cards » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:27 PM UTC

drbawb wrote: post #184

51Cards wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... while it's under warranty. Pay through the nose when it's not because it can't be serviced anywhere else. Simply put, would you buy a car that once beyond the warranty had to have brakes, tires, battery, air filter, and spark plugs replaced ONLY at the dealership with parts at factory cost? In addition if any part broke on the engine you would have to replace the entire engine. It's not that much different. I wou…

You do realize that many premium cars have exactly this mentality surrounding them? Audis are notoriously difficult to work on, as were Saab's, and good luck finding somebody certified to service a Porsche in your area that doesn't work at a Porsche dealer. Not to mention, people that spend that much on a car usually want performance parts or factory parts [not your average "OEM equivalent" parts] and a competent tec…

I understand the 'luxury item' mentality but if a Porsche breaks out of warranty, you won't have to replace the entire engine to fix a faulty alternator. And you don't have to purchase tires or most maintenance parts from Porsche if you choose not to... in fact usually you buy better tires / brakes / exhaust direct from specialty dealers, not from Porsche. Key is you have the option to go either way, you're not locked in without warning.