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Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

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Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#221

Post by Quinner »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #114
epgui wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% do not think in words or sentences or language. It feels more like node-traversing a graph of concepts, but it's all completely abstract. While I am able to consciously play back my thoughts linguistically or visually with some effort (and at the cost of efficiency), by default there are neither words nor images. French is my first language, I'm fluent in English, and I know a bit about many languages... But I…

Right, very like me. Language is the front end; I use it to express thoughts when needed (to record, communicate and check reasoning) The back end is working in some kind of abstract space. I suspect people who say they think in language are not really thinking "in" language. I think we all have this abstract conceptual space in us. I'm not even sure what it means to think in language; where do the ideas and concepts…

Internal monologue (or dialogue, as it can play out as imagined conversations) is an apt name for it. Imagine reading a play. Everything is expressed as language, and ideas and concepts are expressed through that language.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#222

Post by AlotOfReading »

butlike wrote: post #218
AlotOfReading wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word human is commonly used for both modern humans and members of the entire genus Homo. Hominids is a more general superset that isn't strictly correct here. The term hominin is more appropriate in this context and what they actually use in the abstract. In my opinion though, "human" is the better word here for conveying the right mix of informality without implying the specific semantics of "Hominini sans Pan".

Human === Homo sapien _sapien_. Homo Sapiens are a different thing

H. s. sapiens is not universally accepted either. As a practical matter, it'd raise a lot more eyebrows in an actual conversation with anthropologists than the informal usage of humans = genus Homo I mention above.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#223

Post by Wissenschafter »

darby_nine wrote: post #149
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? This is literally the first time Ive seen the word human applied to other hominids. I see many discussions about neanderthals and denisovians and so on. I have never seen them referred to as human.

I'll admit this is the first I've encountered the concept that "neanderthals and denisovians and so on" are not human. Maybe not biologically modern humans, but I'd certainly consider them fundamentally human.

Bizarre, this is the first I've encountered the concept of someone thinking Neanderthals and Denisovans were "Human".

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#224

Post by orhmeh09 »

Wissenschafter wrote: post #223
darby_nine wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit this is the first I've encountered the concept that "neanderthals and denisovians and so on" are not human. Maybe not biologically modern humans, but I'd certainly consider them fundamentally human.

Bizarre, this is the first I've encountered the concept of someone thinking Neanderthals and Denisovans were "Human".

Allow me to further blow your mind:

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/who-were-the-neanderthals.htm...

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/are-neanderthals-human...

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#225

Post by vidarh »

7thaccount wrote: post #207
vidarh wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see nothing at all. I spent 45 years or so thinking people were talking metaphorically when talking about picturing things, because surely they couldn't actually see things while awake? I see things when I dream , so I know what it is like, and some years ago I had a single experience during meditation I've never managed to replicate, but otherwise nothing while awake.

So if I told you to close your eyes and think about your best friend's face....you cannot see ANYTHING?

No. Nothing.

EDIT: This is a great article about Ed Catmull and aphantasia: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47830256

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#226

Post by MeImCounting »

mistermann wrote: post #204
MeImCounting wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clearly" refers to the obviousness or self-evidence of the statement. In this context, "just" means "similarly" or "in the same way," or ig "exactly" if you like. "Clearly" because exterior stimuli clearly influence both thinking and feeling, a concept supported by common experience and scientific understanding of human cognition and emotions.

How are all of these measured?

Theres actually a ton of different ways. The most obvious is probably MRIs of which many have been conducted with the subject having a huge variety of different stimulus. Then theres the good old fashioned behavioral studies ranging from the classic "does the subject jerk their hand back in the presence of heat?" to the more recent hungry judge phenomenon.

I wouldnt think the fairly self evident assertion that exterior stimulus changes both the internal state of a person as well as their behavior would be controversial.

At this point in history "free will" is really just the god of the gaps and those gaps shrink every year. Its probably a useful religious concept but as far as reality goes its the least interesting question one could ask about the whole human experience.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#227

Post by MeImCounting »

poochkoishi728 wrote: post #115
MeImCounting wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clearly" refers to the obviousness or self-evidence of the statement. In this context, "just" means "similarly" or "in the same way," or ig "exactly" if you like. "Clearly" because exterior stimuli clearly influence both thinking and feeling, a concept supported by common experience and scientific understanding of human cognition and emotions.

Influence != Determine

Yes it is indeed possible that in that small and shrinking gap of behavior that isnt explained by some complex set of circumstances and stimuli there lies some magic immaterial soul that grants the ineffable quality of free will. Bbbut since we have yet to find any evidence for such a thing I wouldnt keep my hopes up. Also theres much more interesting questions to be asking.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#228

Post by MeImCounting »

goatlover wrote: post #195
MeImCounting wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking isnt even a path to "free will". Thinking is pretty clearly determined by exterior stimulus just like feeling is.

How would thinking be determined by exterior stimulus, when we all vary to some extent to the same stimulus? Behaviorism was found wanting because it didn't account properly for goes on between the ears. And the rest of the body, which makes us individuals. The idea of free will comes from the fact that people do make different choices. We make different choices than our past selves did. From a compatibilist perspect…

> How would thinking be determined by exterior stimulus, when we all vary to some extent to the same stimulus?

Because, and this may shock you: we are not all the same person

You make an excellent point that people respond differently to a given stimulus. This is explained by those people having had different genetics, environments, upbringings and even breakfasts leading up to the point of the test. It has been demonstrated that your metabolic state will vastly change your response to stimuli throughout a day.

I ate something different for breakfast today than yesterday because one sounded tastier than the other. I made this decision not because I have an eternal soul making randomized decisions like a roulette machine but because yesterday I craved salty food and today yogurt sounded better. I am different person today than I was yesterday. My gut, brain and everything else has been changed by all the stimulus I experienced yesterday and is now influencing my responses today.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#229

Post by JohnMakin »

Ancient human anthropology is a fascinating subject because we are still discovering so much yet know so little.

Stone tools remained essentially unchanged for a long, long time. 600kya would have been within the range where there were still multiple homo species occupying very similar regions. An important thing to remember is that the homo family tree is more like a bush than a tree, with lines getting very blurry and a lot of interbreeding. It makes me wonder how much technology like this actually came from our precise lineage or was shared/stolen/learned amongst human species.

Re: Humans began to rapidly accumulate technological knowledge 600k years ago

#230

Post by mistermann »

MeImCounting wrote: post #226
mistermann wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are all of these measured?

Theres actually a ton of different ways. The most obvious is probably MRIs of which many have been conducted with the subject having a huge variety of different stimulus. Then theres the good old fashioned behavioral studies ranging from the classic "does the subject jerk their hand back in the presence of heat?" to the more recent hungry judge phenomenon. I wouldnt think the fairly self evident assertion that exteri…

Did you remember to check/contemplate whether your "measurements" are correct?

This seems like a rather recursively self-referential problem.

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