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How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

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Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#221

Post by stronglikedan »

r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#222

Post by delecti »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #181
bell-cot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.

Ovens CAN last for 15 years, but should ALL of them? Who gets to decide how long something gets to last for?

As (ostensibly) our collective agent, the government seems like a decent candidate.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#223

Post by luyu_wu »

divan wrote: post #101
user_7832 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the video (I'm in a quiet place right now.) > And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. I disagree on a fundamental level. You could say such a thing when talking about really small (micro/miniature) devices. But as size increases, the validity of such arguments rapidly goes down. A phone case/bumper for example - makes t…

> I haven't seen the video ... I disagree on a fundamental level. Right )

Parent of parent explained the premise of the video correctly. For someone who's complaining about the parent not watching the video, it really comes off as you having not even watched the video.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#224

Post by BenjiWiebe »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #218
kevingadd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The washing machine was probably sealed much better against humidity since it would be in proximity to water all the time.

Yeah in my experience the boards in a washing machine are conformally coated which makes it a real treat to replace a relay on the control board.

The nice thing about conformal coating is that in general you don't have to do as many repairs versus non conformal coated boards.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#225

Post by IX-103 »

bell-cot wrote: post #118
mschuster91 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

phew, at that age I'd really be worried about the seals for the gas oven and about the insulation of the wiring for the electric one.

[Took a look at my stove] Nope, all the easily-accessed wiring (under the stove top - which lifts like a car hood, for quick clean-up after a pot boils over) is in excellent shape. Insulation colors look a bit faded, but that's it. (Yes, all those wires bend a bit when you either remove a burner, or lift the top. But the design is such that the radius of those bends is extremely large, compared to the diameter of the…

Sounds like they really don't make them like they used to. Most things have moved to stranded wires due to their lower resistance per weight properties, despite their higher likelihood of breaking during bends.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#226

Post by TonyTrapp »

stronglikedan wrote: post #221
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

There's a variety of reasons:

- Lower-quality components (especially capacitors) being used to meet the lower price point. This is by far the most common failure mode I have experienced, it's never the LEDs dying but the power supply.

- Higher-quality LED light is usually result of driving the LEDs harder, causing them to fail earlier.

- Probably some other reasons too.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#227

Post by CapitalistCartr »

stronglikedan wrote: post #221
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

The LEDs themselves are made in a handful of factories around the World and are usually robust. The power supplies are the weakness. Each bulb manufacturer makes their own, and it's a race to the bottom.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#228

Post by surge »

stronglikedan wrote: post #221
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

The rule of thumb I've found with light bulbs is similar to the Boots Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory), which is you need to spend at least $8-$10 on a bulb to get something that will actually last. Feit is good but its hit or miss on life span, especially when I get them close to the same price and incandescent, often times its the little A/C to DC converter that dies (really need DC light circuits or dedicated converter in the light fixture). I feel its worth spending the extra to not replace them.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#229

Post by HPsquared »

Youden wrote: post #95
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

It wasn't as simple as them wanting to make more money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY Key points from an AI summary: - Incandescent bulbs had to balance factors like light output, efficiency, and lifespan - hotter filaments produced brighter, whiter light but reduced bulb lifespan. - Longer-lasting bulbs were less efficient and produced dimmer, yellower light, so they were not simply "better" products b…

It's a question of temperature.

Hotter filament gives more efficient and whiter light (the black body radiation has more visible and less infrared), but the hotter filament doesn't last as long (faster evaporation rate).

It's perfectly possible for end users to use a dimmer switch to make incandescent lamps last much, much longer at the expense of less light and a "warmer" colour.

Lifespan is very, very sensitive to the temperature.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#230

Post by Scoundreller »

stronglikedan wrote: post #221
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

At least you have a fighting chance of fixing your LED bulb, unlike an incandescent.

Usually they’re over-driven and you can jump a burned out LED and scrape off a bit of a resistor to reduce the amount of current going through to (over-)account for the reduced current need.

https://youtu.be/JBKF7rKB3zc

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