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The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

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Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#221

Post by Aurornis »

aspenmayer wrote: post #208
Aurornis wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t speak for you, but that isn’t at all accurate as far as I know. > I’m not intimately familiar with actual existing accommodations for ADHD and other conditions under the FMLA and other disability discrimination laws and regulations in the US or other countries. Why are you saying it's inaccurate if you don't understand the laws and regulations? The FMLA that you cited and linked is for emergency medical lea…

> Why are you saying it's inaccurate if you don't understand the laws and regulations? I didn’t say I wasn’t familiar with them, I said I wasn’t intimately familiar with them. > The FMLA that you cited and linked is for emergency medical leave, not for ADHD accommodations. It’s about more than that, but that’s neither here nor there. Needing to take time off regularly, irregularly, as needed, or working less than ful…

> and read any resources you may have on this subject,

If anything, I'd suggest reading up on the details of FMLA.

FMLA is not, for example, a free pass to take time off as needed, or regularly.

The wording of FMLA is more about recovering from an illness. Someone who routinely becomes overwhelmed with work and needs extra time off is going to have a hard time arguing that it's actually FMLA protected leave.. FMLA will specifically exclude things like taking time off for routine medical care, because it's specifically not for those purposes.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#222

Post by akozak »

bradleyjg wrote: post #145
akozak wrote: post #104

I have a lot of experience working with the weird nerd archetype and watching them navigate large orgs. First it's absolutely true that orgs that purport to support weird nerds will revert back to rewarding politicians. I've seen it happen, and typically has to do with who is doling out money. However, in my experience the vast majority of brilliant nerds way overextend themselves, and are much too confident outside…

However, in my experience the vast majority of brilliant nerds way overextend themselves, and are much too confident outside their domain. They're also much more likely to be jerks and will tumble from conflict to conflict until they get their way by attrition or status. Conflicts are strangely more personal because so much ego is tied up into it. They're more likely to assume they're right in every (non-tech/science…

This won't be a satisfying answer (and won't work for startups), but the solution I saw most frequently was to assign them dedicated diplomats or maintain a middle mgmt class who are well suited to coddle them, absorb most of their emotional energy, and channel it productively (or not) into the wider institution.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#223

Post by Forgeties79 »

sneed_chucker wrote: post #67
walt_grata wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I duno on some of that. Until I was about 39 I was a "weird nerd" and then my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Autism has a very wide range of ways it shows itself.

Well, to me your comment also speaks to the increasing degree to which we medicalize personality traits. I'm sure your diagnosis is legitimate, but also I'm inferring from your comment that you are married and gainfully employed; so it sounds like you're able to build and maintain relationships, as well hold conversations with strangers or non-close acquaintances when necessary. In years past would any professional h…

This reads kind of like “my parents hit me when I was younger and I turned out fine” though o highly doubt it’s your intention.

Just because things seemingly turned out OK doesn’t mean the treatment was appropriate. In the same way, just because someone manages to “get by” doesn’t mean they don’t need to be diagnosed. It’s just making their life needlessly more difficult whereas they could yave more resources that reduce the burden they have to live with every day.

Just knowing you have a diagnosis, regardless of whether or not you are treated, can be incredibly empowering and helpful. It isn’t a mystery why other people could sit down and study for three hours when I was in college and I couldn’t. I was diagnosed with ADHD, I knew where my blockers were and what they looked like (and continue to!) It gives me a lot more control and ability to manage myself day to day vs. assuming something is wrong with me. The latter feeling can be incredibly demoralizing and even lead to self-destructive tendencies such as a self-medicating with alcohol and drugs. After all: Why bother trying if you’re convinced you’re truly broken? It’s not something that has a name but that other people share this problem with you and manage is, again, incredibly empowering.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#224

Post by manmal »

sneed_chucker wrote: post #67
walt_grata wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I duno on some of that. Until I was about 39 I was a "weird nerd" and then my wife (Dr of special education) finally convinced me to talk to a Dr and get get tested for autism. Turns out I'm ASD 1, would have been Asperger's in the past. Autism has a very wide range of ways it shows itself.

Well, to me your comment also speaks to the increasing degree to which we medicalize personality traits. I'm sure your diagnosis is legitimate, but also I'm inferring from your comment that you are married and gainfully employed; so it sounds like you're able to build and maintain relationships, as well hold conversations with strangers or non-close acquaintances when necessary. In years past would any professional h…

> you're able to build and maintain relationships, as well hold conversations with strangers or non-close acquaintances when necessary

The traits you are describing here and autism don’t exclude each other. Many autists live well. Some Fortune 500 founders and/or CEOs are autistic. I’m tempted to conclude you are projecting a stereotype, but I might be reading too much into your post.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#225

Post by rustyboy »

detourdog wrote: post #173
faeriechangling wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really accept the validity of people who are generally more functional and conventionally successful than average being called "disordered" in the first place. It seems like a weird arbitrary insistence of the medical system to simply pathologize anybody who fits into a certain box.

The disorder is how they affect their social surroundings. Everyone is on the spectrum and the disordered are having social problems.

Out of curiosity, given it is a spectrum, what's at the other end of "really" autisitc (if that's even the right word) or does that just go from 0 being "normal" to 1 being that "really"?

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#226

Post by lazyeye »

In other words your typical academic institution likes all kinds of diversity except diversity of thought.

And they hide this behind a smokescreen by focusing on all the superficial forms of diversity (gender, skin color, orientation etc).

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#227

Post by aspenmayer »

Aurornis wrote: post #221
aspenmayer wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you saying it's inaccurate if you don't understand the laws and regulations? I didn’t say I wasn’t familiar with them, I said I wasn’t intimately familiar with them. > The FMLA that you cited and linked is for emergency medical leave, not for ADHD accommodations. It’s about more than that, but that’s neither here nor there. Needing to take time off regularly, irregularly, as needed, or working less than ful…

> and read any resources you may have on this subject, If anything, I'd suggest reading up on the details of FMLA. FMLA is not, for example, a free pass to take time off as needed , or regularly. The wording of FMLA is more about recovering from an illness. Someone who routinely becomes overwhelmed with work and needs extra time off is going to have a hard time arguing that it's actually FMLA protected leave.. FMLA w…

> FMLA will specifically exclude things like taking time off for routine medical care, because it's specifically not for those purposes.

I am going to have to disagree with you there: continuing care and mental health days are covered under the FMLA as I read it.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/28o-mental-heal...

> LEAVE FOR MENTAL HEALTH CONDITIONS UNDER THE FMLA

> An eligible employee may take FMLA leave for their own serious health condition, or to care for a spouse, child, or parent because of a serious health condition. A serious health condition can include a mental health condition.

> Mental and physical health conditions are considered serious health conditions under the FMLA if they require 1) inpatient care or 2) continuing treatment by a health care provider.

> A serious mental health condition that requires inpatient care includes an overnight stay in a hospital or other medical care facility, such as, for example, a treatment center for addiction or eating disorders.

> A serious mental health condition that requires continuing treatment by a health care provider includes—

> Conditions that incapacitate an individual for more than three consecutive days and require ongoing medical treatment, either multiple appointments with a health care provider, including a psychiatrist, clinical psychologist, or clinical social worker, or a single appointment and follow-up care (e.g., prescription medication, outpatient rehabilitation counseling, or behavioral therapy); and

> Chronic conditions (e.g., anxiety, depression, or dissociative disorders) that cause occasional periods when an individual is incapacitated and require treatment by a health care provider at least twice a year.

> REASONS FOR LEAVE

> Leave for the Employee’s Mental Health Condition

> An eligible employee may take up to 12 workweeks of leave for their own serious health condition that makes the employee unable to perform their essential job duties.

> Example:

> Karen is occasionally unable to work due to severe anxiety. She sees a doctor monthly to manage her symptoms. Karen uses FMLA leave to take time off when she is unable to work unexpectedly due to her condition and when she has a regularly scheduled appointment to see her doctor during her work shift.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#228

Post by jauntywundrkind »

I think the biggest hardest tradeoff is just relating to a world where not only is there a huge dissonance between your strong stirring passions & beliefs & other's, but where most people flat out don't have strong stirring passions. Most people are not absurdly driven into deep shit. Most people don't love their day feeling torn apart by wanting to know or wanting to make the things, most people aren't living in their future possibles.

> Paul Graham talks about an underrated quality one needs for extreme success, namely the willingness to be low status. And Karikó had plenty of that: she lived her convictions, in this case the conviction in the importance of mRNA through rejections, humiliations (her office was vacated without her having received prior notice) and hardship. I would go even further and say: she had intellectual courage

Spoken of as courage and low status, being on the pursuit. But societally what I think is most under-stated is the dissonance.

Bruce Sterling's Reboot 2011 put forward two modern archetypes. The first isn't super relevant here, but Favella Chic, being low resources but amazingly cool, bending & reusing whatever you can scrape together to be cool as hell & on top of your shit. The other is High Tech Gothic, where you are wired to the 9's, a master of your domain, amazingly capable & competent, but desperately alone & on your own; a It's Lonely At The Top / The Crown Wears Heavily sentiment.

This idea of apartness, the stark difference of values and beliefs and actions between the individual and the world they see about them: I am so glad to have had some referents for this notion, it's been so helpful. And personally, mulling it over, I keep thinking, it's not really the Weird Nerd's issue. It's not really their problem per se; another view is that the world is failing to hook people, failing to expose them to the raw awe and majesty of possibility and science, failing to inspire exploration & discovery & maker-ship that such an amazing universe of possibilities and circumstance has created around us.

As the Butthole Surfers song Weird Revolution says, The so-called weirdos in this country stand as completely freaked out by the normal man as the normal man is completely freaked out by the weird masses reaction to him. It's worth assessing not just the weirdos as the weird ones! And it's worth telling them, letting them know, this dissonance between your world and the so called normality isn't necessarily your fault, isn't necessarily something wrong with you. I don't think we duly sympathize or grok the alienation the weirdos suffer with.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#229

Post by dagw »

programjames wrote: post #178
dagw wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best researchers won't be much better at 45 than 25 To get great research done you have to be great manager who can prioritise time and resources, balance a budget, forge connections with other researchers, get the most out of the people working for you and know where and how to get even more funding to keep the research going after the initial round of research dries up. Those 20 years might not make you a bette…

Getting other people to do research isn't doing research. You're misattributing who does what.

Very little research can be done by just one person working alone. A huge part of 'doing research' involves getting other people to do research in support of your research.

Re: The Weird Nerd comes with trade-offs

#230

Post by sureglymop »

idiotsecant wrote: post #19
lainga wrote: post #8

> I still stand by my association of Weird Nerds with autism, but for some reason people really do not like to call Weird Nerds autistic. I'm sorry, what , even if they're preponderant you can't just call all of them that any more than you can collectively call all basketball players "Marfan Syndrome havers"

Tell me honestly that most weird nerds are not on the spectrum and I might be able to work up enough energy to clutch my pearls at this. I say this as a weird nerd who is definitely on the spectrum, like I suspect many HN readers are.

I am on the spectrum but I definitely know nerds (although not necessarily weird nerds) who are insanely good programmers/computer scientists (and do have that as their hyper specialized interest) who are not on the spectrum.

But the thing is, it's a spectrum.. Personally I do find it a little ridiculous because the biggest parts of autism have absolutely nothing to do with my work/interests but with social life, sensory issues, etc. And it's definitely more a struggle than a superpower (at least to me).

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