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Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

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Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#221
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone tried to create an LLM based crew on the bridge of a ship or spaceship? Being able to delegate tasks to competent subordinates would be very helpful.

Even a failed attempt at this would be great - imagine your crew frequently misunderstanding your orders and the ensuing chaos.

I sometimes feel like the corpus of videogames is approaching a parody of my entire career.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying people buy baldur's gate because you can undress your characters or make them date Consumers don't want pornography in their games, they're completely different products: visual novels are closer to a slideshow than a game People buy good games and they consume pornography, conflating the two doesn't help us analyse the market. That said, I agree there is probably more money in pornography than in…

Again, literally not true because of how big sites that aren't steam for those games are, and how many games are being made and how much they sell on steam. Yes obviously no one is saying elden ring will have pornography, but there are a lot of games that did sell or would sell more with more romance and to a stronger extent sex stuff in them. For example take an RPG, like Witcher, Cyberpunk, etc. They skirted the li…

Sure, but that's digressing from the key point of the grandparent post about the visual novels - that this median number of "game" revenue is meaningless, because steam sales conflate to entirely different markets i.e. proper games and visual novels, and since the latter outnumber the former but each generally get far less sales (as the market demand is so differently structured) the number isn't informative about the revenue of actual games; and if we want to reason about the game market financials, we have to split the porn in a separate category, as it's too different (money- and sales-wise, it's not about prudeness) to be treated as just one of the genres.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#223
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You give them money. It's not a very heavy lift except for the wallet.

Popular streamers don’t accept every offer to demo a game.

True, but it also depends how many zeroes are in the amount. You have to find streamers interested in your genre, for sure.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#224
I think this would have more chances of success if it focused on just one aspect of game creation, instead of trying to solve engine development, gameplay development and content development all at once.

I.e. if an programmer wants to create a game, then getting the artwork in a consistent style is a big problem, and solving that alone (i.e. as a plugin for Unity or Unreal or Godot or whatever) would be both powerful and difficult.

Conversely, if someone without programming skills wants to create a game, then it would be best to focus solely on the AI assistance for gameplay design with a fixed, well-known engine and an integrated well-populated market for content, and assume that they will get the content packs there, leaving that problem out of your scope but making it easy to integrate the AI-generated logic with the pre-made content packs.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#225
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just about marketing though. There is this belief, especially among fledgling indies that if they make a game that they think is good, and if they are able to market it well, it will be a success, even a hit. A hit in gamedev is not easier than creating a hit in the music industry really. Even the veteran composers are not able to replicate (or even achieve) creating a hit. Possibility of success depends on…

Hate to break it to you, but the pop star success formula is actually meticulously detailed and very repeatable. The producers and song writers know exactly how to do it. It’s not about challenges in finding success, so much as, at least in music, artists don’t want to follow a formula. They want to create songs and melodies that are personal and meaningful to them and their fans.

That probably involves more of a corporate marketing vanguard that picks winners more so than it organicly finds them.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Void Rains Upon Her Heart [1], Fear and Hunger [2] are two examples. You'll look at both of these games and think 'wait, they're actually successful, what's the deal?' and not see the whole story, which is why I linked the charts. Both of these games launched to little to no success, with few (highly positive) reviews. What changed is that deep into their lifespan (~3-4 years after release), a popular youtuber di…

>There are a lot of games exactly like that, but haven't had the person with the viewerbase to boost them up. Nor will they ever. Such as? Just name one so we can all know. This is your time to help them out no matter how little and there are "a lot" apparently so it shouldn't be hard.

Hex of Steel. Turn based hex wargame, very niche but with a fairly large worldwide community into such games. Only the solo developer is doing plays on youtube and twitch. The game has been seeing a slow upward sales trend as the niche wargame community realizes how good it is. If you've played SSI and Avalon Hill hex games as a kid you should get this.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1240630/Hex_of_Steel/

https://steamdb.info/app/1240630/charts/#max

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that I never see addressed for this: So, let's just grant that someday, the tech will be mature enough that this is possible, and let's even say it goes beyond videogames to movies, to visual art, to graphic design, to writing, etc. Let's say that AI gets to a place where any joe blow can put in a prompt, and get a competent, and even let's be generous and say good product out of it. A solid 8/10. So... who…

So... I think maybe the same could have been said about writing once upon a time. "What if everyone could write, we'd flood the market with poorly written books!". Well we went from no one being able to write to almost everyone being able to. But just because everyone can technically write, it doesn't mean that everyone is a _writer_. I believe that the same goes for AI tools for games. Yes, more people will technica…

> So... I think maybe the same could have been said about writing once upon a time.

I mean, you say that as though it is not increasingly year over year more and more difficult on balance to make your living as a writer. That it hasn't been a famously difficult thing to do since like... I mean good god, I remember writers complaining about this when I was a kid on forums back in the early 2000's and at that time it was old fucking news how hard it was to make it as a writer.

And like:

> "What if everyone could write, we'd flood the market with poorly written books!"

Many people say we have! Except writers didn't really do it, so much as grifters did it, paying gig-economy workers shit tier wages to crank out boring a repetitive e-books to sell to communities that are typically hostile to proper sources of information. You know, people entirely divested from writing as a profession did it, because they fundamentally don't care about writing and simply saw it as an avenue in which they could spam poorly crafted garbage to uncritical audiences.

Sound familiar at all?

> We now see it as a natural thing that everyone can read and write. We don't want to go back to a time where it was only for a select few elites. If we turn things around and imagine that the technology exists that makes it possible for anyone to build games; then should we keep that from them?

I mean, I'm not arguing for or against the existence of accessible toolsets. If you want my opinion on that, they already exist. Games have famously been made by all kinds of people with all kinds of circumstances that make it notable said people were able to make said games. Various disabilities, physical and intellectual, all manner of life circumstances, on and on. Tons of people make games. None of those people (yet) have used an AI game builder, they used the same tools, combined with accessibility addons for computers, and recruited help for the parts they couldn't have.

I don't know where you get this notion you have to go to game school. Tons of amateurs make games. I think a lot of them (smartly) bring on actual software and game developers to fill in the gaps their lack of expertise cannot, just like they bring on musicians if they aren't musically inclined, or designers if they aren't graphically inclined, and there's nothing wrong with that either and tons of people do all of that for free right now, because plot twist, humans in general enjoy making things for other humans. It's kind of... core to our being in a lot of ways.

I don't see creatives benefiting from AI. I see the management/consultant vampires benefiting from it. The type of people who say things like "make the logo pop" and get annoyed when creatives roll their eyes at them.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#228
post #3

What a neat idea! Next: a strategy game where you give orders in plain text, instead of hundreds of clicks per minutes

Sounds like you'd like the game Diplomacy

It's been done. The AI plays it rather well.

https://ai.meta.com/research/cicero/diplomacy/

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#229

I think most people don't actually want to make games. Most people want to take an existing basic game, and tweek it a bit, incrementally, adding new art, ideas and levels, and removing the stuff they don't like. They definitely do not want to write code. They most certainly do not want to debug generated code and I think you've hit the nail on the head with 'generating actual code sucks, is hard and basically doesn'…

I think you are right with most of your observations. Why do you think that using something like createOrUodateRule could limit the ability to produce complex behaviour?

The callback style in createOrUpdateRule appears to create isolated snippets of code that can't invoke other rules.

Perhaps I've misunderstood what is happening, but if this is how it is, the agent can never write a function and compose other functions out of it.

That is functional programming where functions cannot call each other.

Composition of code units (ie. code A calls code B) is the basic building block that allows software to scale.

Without it, I don't believe you can get above trivial complexity.

Re: Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

#230

I think a part of the reason why I'm kind of dismissive of AI when it comes to creative endeavors is that I haven't seen it do something that isn't already possible using a "not-intelligent" solution. For example, AI website builders. It's impressive as a tech demo that you can prompt an AI to make a website for you, but otherwise I don't think this is going to be disruptive to the web design industry since it's alre…

Uhm…, even you use something low-code, or even no-code tool, you still have to learn how to code (former) or learn how to use some kind of visual scripting tool (latter). If you could simply type in plain English what are the mechanics you have in mind instead, then this new (simpler) way of creating game logic it may has the potential to unleash creativity from a broader audience. It is like saying why would I need…

Precisely specifying desired functionality of software in ‘plain English’ is hard. Especially if you can’t provide diagrams, sketches, mocked-up screen layouts, etc.

Also, the low-code/no-code tools allow precise editing. With current prompt-based AI party tricks, a tiny change to the prompt can produce completely different output.

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