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Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

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Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#221

Post by johnnyanmac »

dragonwriter wrote: post #126
willis936 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand why they would shutter Tango, a small / low cost house producing influential art that people actually want, while behemoths that burn cash and produce soulless products that no one wants survive. Shut down Bethesda, they're the ones with awful gameplay and writing. Don't shut down the darlings.

“Influential art” vs “soulless products” tends to map pretty well to “niche products that return poorly compared to costs to produce while earning critical accolades” vs. “reliable cookie-cutter moneymakers”, and Microsoft isn't in the business to win critical awards for stockholders, but to make money for them.

ehh, the correlation is off. MS apparently lied that Hi-Fi Rush "succeeded on all metrics" and meanwhille, Redfall couldn't have been more cookie cutter if you try. It all feels like a crapshoot at this point.

I will remember this closure very well in a year or two when MS tries for the dozenth time to "expand our reach to the Asian market". Because they pulled out. Again.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#222

Post by etempleton »

FractalHQ wrote: post #212
etempleton wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starfield was much better than past Bethesda releases, but I agree.

It’s the same old shitty engine that needs to be sent to the recycle bin if they hope to have any chance of making a modern AAA game that doesn’t feel like it’s stuck in 2015.

It is not. It is a significantly upgraded engine.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#223

Post by johnnyanmac »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #63
fidotron wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refer to my other answer about gamepass. For the Xbox brand they have failed to release quality versions of every major Xbox franchise bar Forza Horizon (Halo Infinite, for example), and this mismanagement has been ongoing for so long the sales figures of the Series consoles are dire. (And the Series X is not bad by any stretch). Now they are having to release their games on their major competitor, the PS5, making…

They’ve already expressly said they’re shifting from a hardware-focused business to a software-focused one. Did you miss that and think they’re just bad at business? Hardware has always been a loss leader used to sell games, nothing more. If they can sell the games just as well on their “competitiors platforms” then why bother spending time and exorbitant amounts of money building your own hardware? Exiting the hardw…

>Did you miss that and think they’re just bad at business?

A software shop closing up its software devs to focus more on a few golden geese doesn't inspire confidence for me. But it's not like shareholders actually look that intimately into the industry.

if you only offer software and can't get a 30% cut on all software you sell on a hardware platform, I'd hope you make up for that with more and better games. So this seems backwards to that strategy as a long term move (I know, a relic of the past).

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#224

Post by johnnyanmac »

coffeeindex wrote: post #93
fidotron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gamepass was a failure? I'm amazed that this is a question. Gamepass is essentially so low cost as to be an incredibly costly giveaway, only it has proven that this devalues everything that touches it. For context, Hifi Rush had 3 million players on Gamepass last August, and today they shut the studio. So even when they get a break out hit they cannot justify keeping the studios around to try and do another; that's…

Until I see actual numbers on Gamepass I won’t believe that it was a failure. It isn’t a direct comparison of “gamers are spending $10 instead of $70”. People who would not buy a game that just came out will willingly pay for Gamepass every month. Gamepass also exists on PC, so Xbox is dipping into a user base which otherwise might not buy many products from them. Yes they almost definitely make less money from some…

It's way too soon to call it a failure, but I'd be very surprised if GP isn't a loss leader strategy for Microsoft to capture the game subscription market.

The problem is that this is a very 2010's strategy and money is no longer free. So this approach is a lot riskier than it was than in the netflix days. I don't know if Microsoft, given this news, wants to keep playing the long game.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#225

Post by johnnyanmac »

FractalHQ wrote: post #212
etempleton wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starfield was much better than past Bethesda releases, but I agree.

It’s the same old shitty engine that needs to be sent to the recycle bin if they hope to have any chance of making a modern AAA game that doesn’t feel like it’s stuck in 2015.

Does a technical community like HN really not understand how legacy code works? The Creation engine in 2024 has about as much relation to Embryo as UE5 does to UE1. There will be some core math that hasn't changed in 30 years, but the engines are night and day.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#226

Post by johnnyanmac »

burnte wrote: post #66

I don't even know why this makes news anymore. It's so rare for a game studio to last a decade, most don't, and even successful ones will be shut down after launching a huge title in order to keep more profits for the publisher. Publishers are slave masters in the games industry.

Making a crass example, but schol shootings also make the news all the time and they are reported on in detail everytime. It being semi-common doesn't not make it depressing.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#227

Post by johnnyanmac »

Apocryphon wrote: post #31

Looking Glass, Irrational Games, Ion Storm, Arkane. Wonder if immersive sims are fated to be an over-ambitious, under-sold, mass audience-unfriendly genre made by doomed studios.

Similar to how the adventure gennre killed the point and click, I argue that sandbox killed the immersive sim. The ultimate choice is to do whatever you want, with no pesky story and narrative to get in your way.

Immersive sims meanwhile, seem to be expected to be a smaller scoped (often single player) game, bringing about choice in repeating the same playthrough in its world. Not giving the player a huge toolbox and letting them go wild.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#228

Post by johnnyanmac »

coolbreezetft24 wrote: post #92

I feel like AAA gaming has just gotten too big, the time between releases is way too long compared to back in the 2000s and try to hard to big massive open world or movie quality cinematic experience. I feel similar about Sony. Nintendo on the other hand seems have a good balance of putting out quality games of various ambition with a good frequency

>Nintendo on the other hand seems have a good balance of putting out quality games of various ambition with a good frequency

And you see how vehemently the gaming community reacts everytime a Switch exclusive game has some slight frame dip despite running on 2016 hardware. Part of that demand does in fact come from the consumers who don't understand how much work goes into those fancy graphics. And what it sacrifices.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#229

Post by johnnyanmac »

wredue wrote: post #161
hbn wrote: post #103

Just yesterday there was a poll going around on Twitter of which of the big 3 gaming companies, Nintendo, Sony, and MS is the "least bad" or something like that, and I saw a lot of people saying Microsoft. I figured they'd do something stupid soon to remind everyone how Microsoft operates, but didn't think it would be so soon! I can't believe these studio acquisitions still aren't being blocked. At what point will th…

How on earth is MS the “least bad” in the wake of this massive anti-competitive practice of just buying up studios?

You gotta think like a gamer. Microsoft will make Call of Duty free on gamepass. Meanwhile, Nintendo graphics suck and they hate mods. and Sony is too greedy in buying exclusives and keeping them off PC. MS wins by default with this mindset. Their backwards compatibility and PC support is indeed the best out of the 3, but that only helps out PC players (who seem to dominate a lot of this discussion).

Seeing the reactions on Reddit or Twitter really show how either young or ignorant the average video game commenter is on how the industry works. just instant gratification at any cost, and if it's denied it's war. Just look at how ballistic they went for needing an extra account for Helldivers, then read up on the news for these layoffs for a game they loved and see the slight murmur in comparison.

HN has some of that too, but there's at least some professionals here that will sympathize with the developers.

Re: Microsoft closes several large Bethesda affiliated game studios

#230

Post by johnnyanmac »

swozey wrote: post #112

The amount of layoffs the last two years is ridiculous. My company just laid off 35 people (150ish employees) and gave them a whopping 2 weeks severance for each year that they worked there. Most of the people let go had only worked here for 1-2 years. Engineers and QA. I was shocked when I heard that because I've always seen it as a great place to work and very forward thinking. That wasn't publicly disclosed, of co…

Hey that was my package too, and sadly it was my best package.

Company #1, nothing.

Company #2, this.

Company #3, 1 month (TBF I was only there a year, so I guess it was as good as #2).

#2 only wins out because I had partially vested stock. But otherwise, my severance history is paltry.

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