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Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#221

Post by toss1 »

mc32 wrote: post #190
lotsofpulp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of an insurance business is to insure against unknown and unlikely risks. If it is insuring known or likely risks, then it becomes a subsidy or wealth transfer (which should be the domain of governments).

It’s still unknown if someone engaging in risk will end up in costly collisions, or other events. Just because you engage in risk doesn’t mean it will bite you, only that it is more likely to bite you. Besides why should less risky drivers subsidize riskier drivers?

If they have an ACTUAL measure of lower skilled and higher risk drivers, fine.

But when they use overly simplistic data (or use it in an oversimplified way) that makes the highest-skilled drivers appear in the same batch as low-skilled and high-risk drivers, that is not subsidy, it is unfair penalization by stupidity.

(see other comment on logging of g-forces)

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#222

Post by thfuran »

ytx wrote: post #170

> "More specifically, automakers are selling access to the data to Lexis Nexis, which is then crafting “risk scores” insurance companies then use to adjust rates. Usually upward" In an ideal world, such data-harvesting might lead to cheaper prices / a more efficient insurance market - which would make the privacy loss worth considering from a trade-off standpoint, at least in theory. Unfortunately it's instead likely…

In an ideal world, such data harvesting would be illegal, with liability adhering to the executives pushing for and approving the initiative as well as any legal counsel involved. Acquiring the data should require explicit, truly informed, and revocable consent not buried in a bunch of BS and not required for the purchase of a vehicle or insurance.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#224

Post by thfuran »

nemo44x wrote: post #220
loeg wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cars are not capable of measuring how dangerous the driving is.

Sure they are. Speed is easy to detect for instance. Someone driving 50mpg in a 25mph school zone should have massive increases to their insurance as they present huge risk.

Should the fine be the same regardless of whether it's five minutes after school let out out or 3AM on Christmas day?

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#225

Post by simpletone »

ldayley wrote: post #180
nhance wrote: post #175

I have been convinced for several years now that insurance companies are likely buying up personal data from many different sources. They seem to be ideal consumers because it'll lead to better outcomes when they can increase rates on those that identify as risky.

This has been true for several years. An insurance agent once told me that there are life insurance companies dropping the requirement for blood draws / medical exams and are just buying prescription records to correlate with financial, educational, and other behavioral data. Edit: changed prescription “data” to “records”

Not only that, don't insurers offer 'discounts' for installing tracking apps on your phones and devices?

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#226

Post by scaryclam »

hiatus wrote: post #219
tengwar2 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody? There are countries other than the USA. I've never heard of signing away rights in respect of blood as a condition of getting a licence. Is this a real thing in the USA?

If you get in a car crash and are suspected of a DUI, in most states you must submit to a breathalyzer or you are presumed guilty by default. Where you live, is that not the case? Or can you get out of a drunk-driving charge by just refusing to blow?

Getting a driving licence and being suspected of drunk driving and causing a crash are two different things. Where I'm from your blood would be drawn after you were arrested for a suspected criminal offence, not just because you had a license.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#227

Post by yodon »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #214
nemo44x wrote: post #198

There's a lot of jerk drivers who go way too fast and drive very dangerously. They should have to pay significantly more for it. For people that drive correctly, they should be charged less as well. I don't see why this is an issue.

Fun new line of business idea: Manufacturers could claim the texas abortion bounties by reporting any motorist who travels to an out of state clinic. The problem with allowing this kind of data usage is you will also have other moral authoritarians that wish to use the data as well.

There are plenty of data brokers who will sell your personal location data, independent of your vehicle, obtained from the apps on your phone.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#228

Post by nemo44x »

thfuran wrote: post #224
nemo44x wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they are. Speed is easy to detect for instance. Someone driving 50mpg in a 25mph school zone should have massive increases to their insurance as they present huge risk.

Should the fine be the same regardless of whether it's five minutes after school let out out or 3AM on Christmas day?

It would be up to the insurer and how their models reflect and manage risk. The point being, individual insurers would be able to better price insurance based on discrete customer behavior.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#229

Post by ethbr1 »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #215
nhance wrote: post #175

I have been convinced for several years now that insurance companies are likely buying up personal data from many different sources. They seem to be ideal consumers because it'll lead to better outcomes when they can increase rates on those that identify as risky.

This isn't a secret. Go read one of the world's largest data broker's annual report to investors, ctrl-f for "insurance": https://www.experianplc.com/content/dam/marketing/global/plc...

Absolutely. Annual financial reports by public companies are a gold mine for this stuff, as they are literally required to talk about it.

You can also get a sense of the scale of the problem by the reported revenue and growth rates (which they're always eager to highlight).

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#230

Post by ethbr1 »

warkdarrior wrote: post #195
dml2135 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t this violate HIPAA?

Depends who is selling that data. Some pharmacy delivery services or billing services may not be covered by HIPAA, since they are not necessarily "covered entities".

Is this true?

My understanding of HIPAA (possibly incorrect) is that it's attached to the data.

If a covered provider is leaking HIPAA covered data to a non-covered business associate entity... that's a big no-no and a fine.

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