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The case against caffeine

zantafakari.substack.com

221–230 of 251 posts

Re: The case against caffeine

#221
I drank coffee from age 20 to age 37. I've been coffee free for 2 years now.

I had anxiety from age 20 to age 37. I've just realised I don't remember when my anxiety stopped, but it's been gone for a while now.

Learning to breathe deep down into my lower back has also helped a weird amount. Yes this is a thing. Youtube is full of physio therapists teaching people to breathe deep into your lower back.

Re: The case against caffeine

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. As someone who doesn’t consume caffeine, this sounds a lot like addiction. You can keep the ritual and ditch the caffeine by drinking decaf if you want.

As someone who is addicted to caffeine, hell yes it is an addiction. A long time ago, I cut out the addictions that were causing negative effects for me (mainly weed and tobacco). I kept caffeine around since I can get wired and still do my job, and it's not overtly unhealthy. An addiction isn't something inherently bad. Everyone's addicted to something or another. But how many addictions synergize with one's perform…

An addiction is only a problem if it's a problem.

I had to ditch coffee because of anxiety. So glad I did. But if you're sleeping well and don't feel like you have an issue with anxiety, then lucky you.

Re: The case against caffeine

#223

I tried this! I went completely caffeine free for over a year and was... fine? But way more tired all the time, and generally having trouble focusing on tasks. In my particular case, I suspect caffeine is a self administered coping mechanism for mild ADHD tendencies, and without that I became much more sensitive to the food I was eating and my changing energy levels throughout the day. Eventually I realized I had sto…

My fix was to quit the job where I felt like I had to drink coffee to survive the drudgery. Now I work from home and can jus be tired if I'm tired. It's great.

Re: The case against caffeine

#224
post #76

As a person with willpower/focus issues, I've found caffeine to be a godsend in college. I've started using so much I've switched to caffeine pills to save money. At first I was taking 200mg in the morning to wake up, 100mg every couple of hours to get me through the lectures, and another 200mg at home to study. It went well, and I became one of the best students in my class, but my anxiety went over the roof. I beca…

I think the benefit of coffee over pills is that you actually need to get/make it, then drink it, which acts as a natural limit to intake (most people will feel sick after drinking several coffees)

Yeah I can't defend the existence of caffeine pills. They're actually dangerous and you could just drink coffee instead.

Re: The case against caffeine

#225
After many years of drinking coffee (1-2 mugs a day), I had to quit because of high blood pressure. I switched to decaf and I found one I even liked. I was served full coffee at Starbucks instead of decaf couple times, so I figured ok, no more drinking coffee I don’t make myself. The one day I got a new batch delivered from Peet’s and… it wasn’t decaf either. This was the breaking point for me and I quit coffee of any kind.

It took me nearly a year before I started waking up feeling ok and not foggy.

I had never had issues sleeping before. Anxiety hasn’t changed either. But when I read about people writing that they felt great first or second day after quitting, I know it’s a total horse shit. First week or two were absolutely awful.

I have not noticed anything really positive or negative after quitting. Except of the blood pressure that is easier to manage. I still hope I get to go back to coffee one day again lol.

Re: The case against caffeine

#226
post #9

> At this point, many of you might be thinking: Zan, you sneaky weasel. Haven't you just cherry-picked your redditors and scientific publications to fit your narrative? Adressing it is good, but ultimately it does not really act as a rebuttal, this is a biased collection of anecdotes from a subreddit of people drinking decaf. That being said, if you do feel like your anxiety is always high and that you have a trouble…

It’s a pretty textbook “Post hoc ergo proprer hoc”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

Re: The case against caffeine

#227

What we really know for sure is this – sleep is good, anxiety is bad. So, if you aren't getting good sleep, find ways to fix it. And if you are anxious all the time, find ways to fix it. By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food)…

> And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body. I'm one of those that seem able to drink lots of coffee even at 6 or 8pm and still fall fast asleep. I also don't feel any different during the day whether I drink it or not. Though I usually still drink it, for various reasons like taste, warmth and social aspects. People always want to find simple universal dietary rules.

Likewise. I can happily drink coffee at bedtime. I never experience a "coffee rush".

A yoga instructor friend once told me "You have a sluggish metabolism". I cannot deny it.

Re: The case against caffeine

#228
post #145

What we really know for sure is this – sleep is good, anxiety is bad. So, if you aren't getting good sleep, find ways to fix it. And if you are anxious all the time, find ways to fix it. By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food)…

> sleep is good, anxiety is bad. Sleep is not all good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersomnia Anxiety is not all bad: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/43757 Sattvic food is not good for your health: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37085478/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35710164/

as with anything, the poison is in the dosage.

Not sure why the world finds this so hard to understand, but I think we have the same issue with politics. Everything seems to suffer from binaryism. everything is either good or bad, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy, us or them...

the world and life in general is full of shades of gray. its not 1's and 0's.

Re: The case against caffeine

#229
post #144

To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morni…

What’s funny to me is the degree to which i perceive people’s denial that caffeine and coffee get you incredibly high. I’m not sure if this is what you exactly meant by euphoric, but I sometimes experience similar things, and I find it funny that “don’t talk to me until I’ve had my cup of coffee” is a negatively phrased statement of “I’m gonna get high on caffeine then I’ll enjoy this conversation more”- as if societ…

For people with high daily intake it’s not so much that they want to get “high” on coffee to enjoy the conversation, as it is that their brain is in acute caffeine withdrawal and they will feel so shitty with coffee that they won’t be able to participate in conversation very well.

Re: The case against caffeine

#230
post #17

High amounts shrink the brain, increase dementia risk. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1028415X.2021.19... And very few people drink 1-2 cups. The travel mugs and typical coffee place cups are close to this danger range.

"High amounts" is a bit of an understatement, the study is talking about more than 6 cups of coffee daily, which is going to be in the 550-600mg range. Up to about 400mg a day is safe for adults[0]. 600mg is a lot of caffeine. For context, a Bang energy drink which is on the upper end of what you can get in a single drink, is 300mg. Most "energy drinks" are around 200mg less. I'm not sure anyone is surprised by the s…

I think you are using energy drinks in your example for effect, only because people overrate their caffeine content relative to coffee. Coffee drinkers who have a full tumbler/togo cup in the morning and a sbux or continual refills from the office pot at work can far exceed the caffeine intake of 3 energy drinks. Meanwhile, Red Bulls actually have deceptively little caffeine and are barely worse than just a regular Coca Cola.

It’s very easy to get into the habit of extremely high caffeine intake, speaking from experience. Not only is caffeine in many drinks and extremely well distributed, its psychological effects are pretty mild. But I think the worst part is that people don’t really think about how much caffeine is in the coffee they’re drinking because it’s hard to measure.

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