What happened to the US machine tool industry? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#221

Post by ddingus » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 7:06 PM UTC

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #177

ddingus wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now there are mandates to build out the manufacturing base needed for military efforts. They know the tech sent off shore will, for the most part, remain off shore. Additive manufacturing, an example of "latest tech", is a primary build up target here. It is new and expertise is being created as the tech itself is.

Additive manufacturing doesn't help much if you want to build Liberty ship volumes, or roller-bearing tolerances, unfortunately.

Indeed.

HYBRID DED is going to be the answer to many of those scenarios.

Basically, we couple subtractive with additive and maximize the benefits of both. Done right the risks are greatly reduced as are costs compared to just doing it the legacy way.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#222

Post by happyjack » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 4:08 AM UTC

fransje26 wrote: post #203

happyjack wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the Clinton administration forced the downsizing of the military industrial complex ( https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2015/12/2/f... ), the USA lost all competition in the larger than regional aircraft. To compete with Airbus (subsidized by the EU), Boeing turned from manufacturing their own airplanes (and using suppliers in America) to assembling planes in Washington and forcing procurement of…

> To compete with Airbus (subsidized by the EU), Boeing turned from manufacturing their own airplanes (and using suppliers in America) to assembling planes in Washington and forcing procurement of their products internationally through contracted parts. Yes, this is one of the more common alternative fact on what happened to Boeing. Going beyond the nonsensical take of the evil subsidized foreign company unfairly com…

It's not an alternative fact, and I'm not defending Boeing. I could give a shit about Boeing.

The fact is there's no competition in the American commercial part 121 airline world. No competition makes you lazy and incompetent.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#223

Post by happyjack » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 4:12 AM UTC

happyjack wrote: post #222

fransje26 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To compete with Airbus (subsidized by the EU), Boeing turned from manufacturing their own airplanes (and using suppliers in America) to assembling planes in Washington and forcing procurement of their products internationally through contracted parts. Yes, this is one of the more common alternative fact on what happened to Boeing. Going beyond the nonsensical take of the evil subsidized foreign company unfairly com…

It's not an alternative fact, and I'm not defending Boeing. I could give a shit about Boeing. The fact is there's no competition in the American commercial part 121 airline world. No competition makes you lazy and incompetent.

And there will never be competition. It cost Cirrus (small, single engine GA aircraft) $100 million to get a type certificate. The Boeing 737 max is still on its original type certificate.

Boeing and airbus is what the (western) world has for big jets. It's a duopoly and has no signs of not being one. Boeing probably shouldn't be a public company either.

The rest of world's aircraft manufacturers are quasi majority state owned enterprises.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#224

Post by hasty_pudding » Mon, Jan 22, 2024, 2:32 AM UTC

nsguy wrote: post #141

hasty_pudding wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guitars made in SKorea used to be a bad joke Are they now considered good guitars??

Yes. But really Indonesia has taken over from South Korea (and China and Mexico for some parts of the market). E.g. PRS used to make their SE line in South Korea and the quality was excellent. "Good guitar" is somewhat subjective. US brands like PRS, Gibson and Fender are still able to charge a premium for a US made instrument. This isn't necessarily because the US has some abilities that the foreign makers don't, it…

I thought it was because US had better quality controls and finer manufacturing specs.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#225

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 4:54 AM UTC

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #26

1. lack of stable production lines due to real-estate securitization and zoning. i.e. it is a huge liability to install something expensive likely to break if moved, and burning capital in a sucker lease. 2. lack of cheap 3-phase power in said zoning, and aging power infrastructure. EVs will likely make the problem worse. 3. lack of skilled labor due to career churn from outsourcing. i.e. it became a demand-deficient…

Would EVs make the problem worse, or better? I'd expect EVs to make better power infrastructure more common and thus cheaper to find.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#226

Post by Joel_Mckay » Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 6:14 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #225

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #26

1. lack of stable production lines due to real-estate securitization and zoning. i.e. it is a huge liability to install something expensive likely to break if moved, and burning capital in a sucker lease. 2. lack of cheap 3-phase power in said zoning, and aging power infrastructure. EVs will likely make the problem worse. 3. lack of skilled labor due to career churn from outsourcing. i.e. it became a demand-deficient…

Would EVs make the problem worse, or better? I'd expect EVs to make better power infrastructure more common and thus cheaper to find.

Energy Commodity prices are an unavoidable variable cost in most factories.

EVs push their true cost onto the entire grid, and thus every resident/business subsidizes the fleet operation with added service costs due to resource scarcity driven prices.

I do like the idea of EVs in many ways, but only when combined with distributed power generation infrastructure like standalone home solar arrays. EVs suck power in large cities and or locations the require battery temperature management... outside in cold Have a wonderful day, and lets admire the sycophantic idealism of EVs together. =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX4PJDA4MQg