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Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

nytimes.com

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Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#221

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

earthling8118 wrote: post #212
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sk.211.ca/services/town-office-43/handi-van-transit/ > Eligibility > Elderly individuals and those with special needs. which is what I expected when I went looking, calling that public transportation is against the spirit of what we're discussing here. My further guess is that the majority of the people in this town are elderly (retirement community).

So the town can afford dedicated transport for people who don't produce anything and your assumption is that it isn't feasible for those who do produce economic value? And it is somehow more feasible for each of those individuals to privately pay the costs?

old people pay taxes, try again.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#222

Post by fomine3 »

the-alchemist wrote: post #59

What a crappy article. One can't complain NYT is too pro-EV. This problem is a combination of growing pains, uneducated EV drivers, old EVs with crappy batteries, some bad infrastructure, and EV manufacturers that don't put enough diagnostics. 1. Ask anyone who has lived in these kinds of cold temperatures. Cold starts in ICEs are always a problem. in upstate NY, you always need a pair of jumper cables ready. you mig…

LFP is considered to "new" and "better" Li-ion battery in affordable BEV world, but isn't it weak for cold climate?

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#223

Post by Arnt »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #151
Arnt wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two end stations existed, and enough in between the make the railway feasible. Then the existence of paths to two big cities made some villages grow, and grow, and grow.

the two end stations exist because people were already there, they didn't build that railway across the US before these areas were settled. What you're arguing is that there are towns that would pop up around these railways after the fact, and while that's true, they would also pop up around water, gold, and other natural resources. It turns out there's lots of reasons why communities form, but one thing we know for…

Some demand has to be present first, sure. But "not second" doesn't follow. No law prevents the planners from expecting demand to grow, and basing their decision to build on that.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#224

Post by zdragnar »

earthling8118 wrote: post #213
zdragnar wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, the chargers weren't operating either. There's a whole parking lot (at least one, I heard more but one for sure) full of cars that couldn't go anywhere because there was no power to be had.

If gas stations stopped working there would also be cars stuck. Yes they are more ubiquitous currently but this isn't an inherent flaw of electric vehicles.

In a comparable situation, you can walk or get a ride to the next station, get a gas can and fill it with a bit of gas, walk back to your car and you're good to go.

Barring a fleet of mobile generators, this is in fact something that ICE cars handle better than BEV.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#225

Post by tambourine_man »

tambourine_man wrote: post #8

Yes, because combustion engines are also great at starting in freezing temperatures. If you manage to get it going, it's fine after a few minutes. But the cold start is a pain.

It’s been 15 years since I had a car, so things must have improved a lot, according to the replies in this thread.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#226

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

Arnt wrote: post #223
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the two end stations exist because people were already there, they didn't build that railway across the US before these areas were settled. What you're arguing is that there are towns that would pop up around these railways after the fact, and while that's true, they would also pop up around water, gold, and other natural resources. It turns out there's lots of reasons why communities form, but one thing we know for…

Some demand has to be present first, sure. But "not second" doesn't follow. No law prevents the planners from expecting demand to grow, and basing their decision to build on that.

yeah, because second doesn't necessarily come after first!

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#227

Post by _ea1k »

natch wrote: post #210
_ea1k wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but in an extreme case, the battery may not take a charge at all without being warmed up. This may take 30+ minutes if it is extremely cold soaked.

If we’re going to extreme cases, even worse, the battery won’t work at all if you disconnect it or grind it into small bits. Or, you could take care of your car as recommended and if a battery preheat will help, use scheduled departure features and plug it in if needed and possible.

I can see what you are getting that there. The problem is that Chicago actually caused a pretty extreme case, mostly due to infrastructure issues. Cars waiting in line for hours at low states of charge effectively couldn't precondition.

I've never seen this scenario happen in the real world, but I guess we've found one weird edge case where it can happen.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#228

Post by engineer_22 »

_ea1k wrote: post #127
engineer_22 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is just people needing to get ready for EVs. Care and maintenance is different from ICE's, and folks are still learning what to do and when.

I'm not sure how an Uber driver can solve the Chicago problem for himself. More infrastructure is really needed. Although the amount of additional infrastructure needed isn't necessarily vast. It sounds like they had enough chargers for normal days.

-> sounds like they had enough chargers for normal days.

Normal warm days. They sold too many teslas for the number of charging stations available for the cold climate.

My take is that this is one of the inevitable complications discovered along the energy transition path. Lesson here: Making and selling cars is the first hurdle, and they got over it. Build a factory, build a marketing apparatus, get them out there. Placing fixed assets to support the service needs in individual markets is lagging behind - a process may not be in place to anticipate and support market adoption at current pace.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#229

Post by engineer_22 »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #141
smileysteve wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you look back 70 years and realize that many small towns only existed because they had rail (passenger and goods). (and/or private bus service). Turns out, getting your goods to market before every person had a car was a requirement.

Exactly! People say, "rural communities need cars". And sure, new sprawl does need cars, like whatever shat itself over the Front Range. But a lot of old towns had trains . Or stage coaches. Or, later, busses. You see this all over the Old West, and New England, and the Rust Belt. These little towns grew up before there were cars . You still see this in rural Europe. There will be some little village in the middle of…

Autonomous vehicles will obsolete passenger rail. The highway network is expansive, interconnected, and hyper-local in a way that railways can never reproduce. Rapid transit in EVs is conceivable in the near future as Autonomy takes over more safety critical processes. As safety critical processes are automated the speed limits can be lifted, allowing very inexpensive travel on-demand.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#230

Post by iAMkenough »

jjav wrote: post #218
iAMkenough wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a municipality that currently requires its citizens to sell their ICE vehicle and purchase an EV and I will eat my words.

Nobody has mentioned having to sell ICE cars, so that's a strawman that doesn't apply. In terms of buying, yes, if all new cars must be EVs then an EV is the only thing you will be able to buy new.

Alright, then give me a municipality that enforces "all new cars must be EVs." I'm particularly interested in the enforcement action taken if a resident purchases a new ICE vehicle in the next county or state over.
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