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27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

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Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#221

Post by NickC25 »

hef19898 wrote: post #211
NickC25 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this dynamic is different depending on 1. how elite that elite talent actually is (I think of elite athletes here, where one might be elite enough to be on the roster of a top level team, but not elite enough to be the de-facto best on the team - they have a whole bunch of rules to follow, but the best of the best on that team can effectively do as they please); and more importantly, 2. what stage the company…

Everytime a soccer team, or any other team, is built around one individual, it is only ever as good as said individual. If that is done, no titles are won and no great accomplishments achieved.

Barcelona's 2008-2012 and 2014-2017 teams would probably disagree - they were built around Messi being able to do whatever he wanted, wherever he wanted....including going on an unbothered stroll for as long as he wanted, whenever he wanted. His whole MO is that he has the unique ability to flip a switch from walking around aimlessly to getting the ball and tearing an entire midfield and defense to shreds in the blink of an eye.

I think they did pretty well, didn't they win a few big titles?

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#222

Post by tamimio »

>According to the Apple co-founder, the best employees are also a pain in the butt to manage.

Said to me by every single manager, for the reasons of not following a faulty process (a one that I even suggested to fix) or attending the usual silly and useless meetings and always thought it’s a “me-problem” for being “anti-authority” despite over delivering every requirement with a very happy clients we had in a very short period of time, I’m glad someone somewhere agreed with me for once, nice article. The question is, how do you communicate that in the hiring process to eliminate any potential management style that will cause a headache for both of you later, do you just say I’m pain to manage?

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#223

Post by pas »

namdnay wrote: post #206
icelancer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Process is required to get mediocre talent to churn out reasonable content, which is Steve's references to HP/IBM/etc. Most people think they're putting out great content. But that's obviously false. One side of Steve's point about letting elite talent do their work presupposes that the talent is elite. Mediocre talent will do much worse work if not bound to process, and Steve was very, very good at rooting out what…

What I always say is that McDonalds have laminated recipes pinned to the wall. A Michelin starred restaurant doesn't. Both of these are good processes

but, but, but ... they are remarkably similar in execution, the difference is the trade offs they chose.

if you pay 200+ bucks per mouth you want something amazing, and that usually means you pick from a fixed menu (interestingly your choices likely be a lot more limited compared to McDonald's), and that restaurant then does the well rehearsed dance and prepares the fancy food for you, with a lot more attention to detail, than what you would find (or need) in a McDonald's fast kitchen.

both are examples of 'process'

just as coming up with a new interesting-innovative-1-2-3-star entree or coming up with a new McD menu item are examples of a creative design process.

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#224

Post by Golden_Wind123 »

NickC25 wrote: post #186
ksec wrote: post #54

Except Tim Cook's Apple focuses much more on process and forget about the content. It is also strange this being brought up now in 2024. Because from 2014 to 2021 or 2022, the only sentiment allowed was every employees are roughly equal. There are no high performer. No such thing as 10x programmers etc.

> Except Tim Cook's Apple focuses much more on process and forget about the content. I have a feeling that's partially due to how much money a lot of those people (and Apple shareholders) have made under Cook's leadership. The growth has been nothing short of incredible. IIRC Apple shares have grown like 8x or 9x under him (when accounting for inflation). That said, Apple products no longer really have that magic tha…

The counterpoint is that we don't need a new gimmick every year, and the companies that do chase new gimmicks (like Samsung and Xiaomi) do so at the expense of overall fit and finish.

However the magic really isn't gone. The Apple Pencil is a nice invention whose whole purpose is for creative endeavors.

Gradual refinement isn't a bad thing either. While this isn't a new invention, it definitely feels like magic to wake up, take my M1 Air everywhere I go, and not have to charge it again until I go to bed (even in 2024, I doubt I could do the same with a Dell XPS). The extra benefit is I have no gimmicky touch screen or never used 2in1 hinges to deal with as well.

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#225

Post by dan-robertson »

tamimio wrote: post #222

>According to the Apple co-founder, the best employees are also a pain in the butt to manage. Said to me by every single manager, for the reasons of not following a faulty process (a one that I even suggested to fix) or attending the usual silly and useless meetings and always thought it’s a “me-problem” for being “anti-authority” despite over delivering every requirement with a very happy clients we had in a very sh…

I guess you say you’re focused on product / driven by delivering value to customers. And in interviews you would want some realistic examples of scenarios where you would want to go one way and you think the kind of manager you dislike would prefer the other way. You can hopefully pose those as questions to better understand how processes work at the company. The problem is the questions need to not have an obvious right answer (you want to avoid ‘used car salesman mentality’ of telling you what they think you want to hear). Or you can just ask about working style/process in general.

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#226

Post by [deleted] »

bart_spoon wrote: post #113
duxup wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea here is folks get too enamored with / focused on the process and not the content or product result. Not that you don’t need process.

Ok but who is actually saying the content/product result isn’t important? Seems like a strawman.

[deleted]

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#228

Post by imbnwa »

Golden_Wind123 wrote: post #224
NickC25 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except Tim Cook's Apple focuses much more on process and forget about the content. I have a feeling that's partially due to how much money a lot of those people (and Apple shareholders) have made under Cook's leadership. The growth has been nothing short of incredible. IIRC Apple shares have grown like 8x or 9x under him (when accounting for inflation). That said, Apple products no longer really have that magic tha…

The counterpoint is that we don't need a new gimmick every year, and the companies that do chase new gimmicks (like Samsung and Xiaomi) do so at the expense of overall fit and finish. However the magic really isn't gone. The Apple Pencil is a nice invention whose whole purpose is for creative endeavors. Gradual refinement isn't a bad thing either. While this isn't a new invention, it definitely feels like magic to wa…

>The extra benefit is I have no gimmicky touch screen or never used 2in1 hinges to deal with as well.

Its insane that Microsoft, who also produces the XBox, just couldn't be bothered to produce a quality HTPC interface for Windows, when they already had all the elements for such as early as their fantastic Zune interface. To this day, there is no proper UI for hooking my PC to a TV and using it as a strict entertainment center. You gotta download Playnite/Emby , etc

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#229

Post by hef19898 »

NickC25 wrote: post #221
hef19898 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime a soccer team, or any other team, is built around one individual, it is only ever as good as said individual. If that is done, no titles are won and no great accomplishments achieved.

Barcelona's 2008-2012 and 2014-2017 teams would probably disagree - they were built around Messi being able to do whatever he wanted, wherever he wanted....including going on an unbothered stroll for as long as he wanted, whenever he wanted. His whole MO is that he has the unique ability to flip a switch from walking around aimlessly to getting the ball and tearing an entire midfield and defense to shreds in the blin…

FC Barcelona between 2008-12:

- had Pep Guardiola as coach

- players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta

But sure, the only super star during that period was Messi...

The 2017/18 team had, in addition to Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and Alba

But again, of course it was only Messi who carried them. Sure.

But even if he did, which he did not, there are only two players like this in his generation, Ronaldo and Messi. That means the vast majority of "rockstar" emoloyees by definition cannot be in that league.

Re: 27 years ago, Steve Jobs said the best employees focus on content, not process

#230

Post by WalterBright »

smackeyacky wrote: post #6
colund wrote: post #5

Jobs talks about this in https://youtu.be/l4dCJJFuMsE . I wish more leaders understood this. I interpret his words that people who do, understand and care are more valuable than those who only focus on process and politics. Steve Jobs has great points again. I love to hear him talk about what really matters for success of great tech companies.

Nobody else got to fail as much as Jobs and kept getting free passes though. I feel like he eventually got smart but he got very, very lucky first. We could all be Jobs level if we had the sandboxes he was gifted in the 1980s Rod Canion from Compaq was always a better CEO

Apple in its early days nearly failed at every stage of its development. See "Return To The Little Kingdom" by Moritz.

Jobs was a very quick learner, though. For example, he soon realized he needed outside management help.

> We could all be Jobs level if we had the sandboxes he was gifted in the 1980s

Jobs saw opportunity where everybody else did not (including Woz). I worked at a company in the 70s that was far better positioned to develop an Apple-like computer, but utterly failed to see the opportunity. This was hardly unique.

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