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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#221

Post by rcpt »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

There is something particularly grating about how Israel acts with impunity on the world stage yet continues to receive unfaltering support from the US government.

They secretly introduced nuclear weapons into the Middle East and refused to sign any of the treaties which are responsible for humanities current existence.

According to Snowden the NSA provides them with whatever data they'd like, even that on Americans, without any filtering whatsoever.

Bibi clowned all over Obama for years and yet he still had to agree with nearly every policy he pushed. Biden has been practically begging them to cut back on West Bank settlements. They won't even meet us there and still we send over money for them to do whatever they please.

As an American it's embarrassing.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#222

Post by fxd123 »

> which also included a denunciation of the “Zionist ideology which promotes an exclusivist state,”

That's an interesting claim, since Israel is definitely not a exclusivist state. Yet again, 'anti-zionism' seems to be used as a dog whistle for anti-semitism

This article is pretty bad, it screams the typical "jews run the media" trope

The authors also collaborated on an article called 'Moderna is spying on you'. So they are anti-vax conspiracy theorists as well? Yikes

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#223

Post by the_gastropod »

matrix87 wrote: post #198
ARandumGuy wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel and pro-Israel commentators have spent a lot of time and effort trying to ingrain the idea that Israel == Jews. Of course, not all Jews are Israeli, and not all Israelis are Jews. And there are many Jewish Israelis who are critical of the actions of the Israeli government. Of course, a lot of criticism of Israel is rooted in antisemitism. But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate cr…

> But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate criticism Who is saying this? All I've heard are people on one side insisting that people are saying this, sounds like a straw man

This isn't exactly the same, but it's pretty close. Here's Nikki Haley tweeting: "Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. No federal funds for schools that don't combat antisemitism." [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1720501916088590704

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#224

Post by throw310822 »

toyg wrote: post #137
rushingcreek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s obviously true that criticism of Israel isn’t inherently antisemitic. But that’s also a convenient excuse used by people who are actually antisemitic. Both of these things can be true at once.

One could say the same for "the other part": being pro-Palestinians doesn't mean being pro-Hamas, but that's also a convenient excuse used by people who are actually pro-Hamas. The problem happens when nobody is given the benefit of the doubt about being in group 1.

I thought you were going to say:

"One could say the same for "the other part": being pro-Israel doesn't mean being a anti-arab racist who wants to ethnically cleanse Palestine, but that's also a convenient excuse used by people who are actually just that".

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#225

Post by proc0 »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

It's because on the surface it's an interracial conflict (it's not really, I guess, but that is the perception for most), and lots of people are obsessed over racial dynamics and analyzing history through that lens.

There are so many other conflicts going on with many more dead, but if it's not interracial then somehow it is not talked about.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#226

Post by wolverine876 »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

What is your specific assertion here? Are you saying something about the article? Does it demonstrate that this group has not suppressed pro-Palestine speech in places in the US?

> there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews

The vasty majority of Muslims are not in the US, the area relevant to the article. Also, to complicate things, afaik most Jewish Americans oppose Israel's right wing, especially the current government, and are sympathetic to Palestinians. And afaik most Israeli support in the US is right-wing evangelical Christians (if I am defining the subgroup accurately), a much larger group than Jewish Americans.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#227

Post by sinistersnare »

ristlane wrote: post #150
pazimzadeh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he tweeted a while back the number of palestinian vs israeli children who have died since october 7 there were way more palestinian children who had died, and some didn't like that being broadcast

Nobody wins in a conflict like this. If Hamas is defeated, and their successors don’t launch missiles at Israel, then there will be peace. Judging by past examples, those who strive peacefully for social justice have been the most successful in attaining it.

MLK Jr. has a lot to say to disagree with you.

https://letterfromjail.com/

> over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”;

just because missiles do not fly, does not mean there is a positive peace.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#228

Post by freeone3000 »

gedy wrote: post #201
jjgreen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how so many otherwise clever people get confused about this.

There's no confusion, had Israel or the US busted into civilian homes and raped and murdered women and children, live streaming it - Would you be fine with people marching down the streets the next day in middle eastern countries with Israeli or American flags saying the same thing?

That is the world we live in, not a hypothetical. That is why there are people marching down the streets.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#229

Post by DevX101 »

Animats wrote: post #57

"That’s where the efforts of J-Ventures’ hasbara WhatsApp group come in. The group, which also includes attorneys and individuals affiliated with the influential American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), has tirelessly worked to fire employees and punish activists for expressing pro-Palestinian views." Is that even legal under US law? Apparently it is in some states. Federal law does not, apparently, prohibit…

AIPAC itself is a result of the President Eisenhower and later Robert F Kennedy (DOJ) demanding the American Zionist Council (AZC) register as foreign agents. Because of this, the AZC rebranded to AIPAC with the same leadership and the issue seemed to have fell off the high priority political radar since.

Incidentally, the founder of AIPAC, Isaiah Kenen registered twice with the U.S. Department of Justice under the Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) as an agent for Israel. Prior to leading AIPAC, he was the leader of the American Zionist Council. He was also chief information officer for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

AIPAC's mission is pretty clear: to promote the interests of Israel. This is fine, and not unique, but that seems to me to be the textbook definition of a foreign agent, and it should be registered as such.

AIPAC has a very large budget and will be spending over $100M in 2024 to defeat any candidate for US Congress that did not align with their pro-Israel goals.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#230

Post by incrudible »

ajb wrote: post #192
incrudible wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

Actions of Western democracies are usually subject to greater scrutiny. Indeed, the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism allowed for this: it says that it is antisemitism to hold Israel to a higher standard than other democracies - not than other nations altogether.

ISIS was defeated by a coalition including western democracies. Well over a thousand civilians died by US bombs alone.
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