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Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

wsj.com

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Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#221

Post by KingOfCoders »

lycopodiopsida wrote: post #195
ulfw wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe for your particular Amex card isn't a real credit card either. That's a charge card. Germany doesn't do real credit cards much (if at all?)

It does, he could get one from Hanseatic Bank for free, DKB had a proper credit card for years (now with s fee). They are mostly fee-ridden, since germans don’t like them very much (cultural thing?) and they are offered as an extra.

Beside the culture (losing everything twice in the last 100 years),

I think money transfer plays a big role. Germany never had a culture of cheques and switched from money to money transfers early on (before WW1), so most stuff in Germany either I pay by money transfer ("Ueberweisung") or a company takes the money from my account ("Bankeinzug") - like mortages, cars, rent, electricity, travelling etc. In the US credit cards partially replaced cheques (and added credit, duh!), which was never something in Germany. The only use of cheques in Germany were traveller cheques when travelling - and then only to get money at the hotel.

Even for the catalog business people payed by invoice and money transfer (and the catalog companies gave you credit).

What is left, like groceries, is often paid in cash.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#222

Post by prmoustache »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #192
zarzavat wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amex’s business proposition to sellers is “we charge high fees but a lot of rich people have Amex so you (the seller) should suck it up and accept us anyway” Sure that works if you’re selling perfume or handbags, but if you’re a family restaurant then rich people and regular people eat the same quantity of food, your margins are low, why accept it? Moreover Amex is pretty rare outside of certain markets. If only fore…

One thing that never made sense to me is that im sure 99% of all the rich people who have amex also got at least another card. If you dont take amex wont those people just use another card.

Yeah I have never met someone using an amex card that didn't have a backup visa or mastercard.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#223

Post by nkhosla »

traceroute66 wrote: post #217
xyst wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be cool. Amex support way better than GS that’s for sure. Would suck for retailers though. Amex fees among the highest when compared to other networks and issuing banks. On the consumer side, I tend to see Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling.

> Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling. Only nutters use Amex whilst travelling (or at least non-US nutters) The double-conversion gotcha is a real killer. Everything gets converted back via USD. So for example, if you have a EUR Amex card and you go to the UK, the AMEX flow is: GBP -> USD -> EUR. And they take, IIRC 3% from you on each leg of that double-conversion.

I don’t think this is universally true. I had a CHF Amex for years. Used it by in EUR and USD online and in person.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#224

Post by prmoustache »

rob74 wrote: post #191
mkii wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are worried over AGI, but I claim it's already here depending on which human population you compare against.

If you compare artificial intelligence with natural stupidity (or rather natural I-don't-give-a-shit), this is bound to happen. Both give wrong answers, but the answers made up by LLMs at least sound more convincing...

Biggest issue is an LLM will often lead you to a dead end or unsatisfying answer and will quit the call abruptly while sometimes with humans you can escalate to a manager.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#225

Post by ljm »

dukeyukey wrote: post #205
KennyBlanken wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being outside the US and thinking "prove you're an incorporated business, prove the major players in your company exist, and fill out this tax form for foreigners" ...is "extra hoops" and "really difficult and obnoxious" > (BTW, I am not based in the US, so "W8 BEN" reads like Klingon to me). If only there were technology to look up what 'W8 BEN' means in seconds

Just saying, the UK has a form of business called a "Sole Trader" where you don't even need to notify the government about until it's tax time. Something like a "Certificate of incorporation" doesn't even exist for that. So yeah, sometimes it fucks things up.

In the UK you can register whatever limited liability company you like on Companies House without any formal process except handling tax accounts (or sometimes VAT). No proof required at all for this, you’ll only need it to set up a company bank account (and that will just be notarised ID).

It just so happens that the UK is therefore an incredibly easy place to dodge tax if you are so inclined.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#226

Post by notahacker »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #203
jwr wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the consumer side, I tend to see Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling. As a B2B SaaS owner, I don't accept Amex, because they make me jump through extra hoops. I process all cards through Braintree, but Amex requires an extra agreement directly with them, and they make the process of signing those agreements really difficult and obnoxious. I have better things to do with my time. I did a…

Imagine being outside the US and thinking "prove you're an incorporated business, prove the major players in your company exist, and fill out this tax form for foreigners" ...is "extra hoops" and "really difficult and obnoxious" > (BTW, I am not based in the US, so "W8 BEN" reads like Klingon to me). If only there were technology to look up what 'W8 BEN' means in seconds

If every other payment provider accepts the vendor's terms and that the vendor already has KYC details on file with its US-authorised payment gateway, AMEX requiring signed scanned copies of its own payment terms and multiple forms of identity to be individually emailed to them for each and every transaction is the definition of 'extra hoops', and it seems quite reasonable to consider it difficult and obnoxious.

For a lot of transaction sizes it isn't really worth the extra effort, particularly as filling in forms like the W8 BEN E is the kind of work people tend to pay their accountant - quite possibly more than the value of the SaaS subscription - to do. (As someone who happily prepares his own tax returns once a year, the W8 BEN E is not a particularly straightforward form to fill in for comparatively little benefit)

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#228

Post by wkat4242 »

wsc981 wrote: post #144
xyst wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be cool. Amex support way better than GS that’s for sure. Would suck for retailers though. Amex fees among the highest when compared to other networks and issuing banks. On the consumer side, I tend to see Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling.

I got an Amex card and I think it kinda sucks. Many businesses in Thailand don't accept Amex, I think due to the high fees. At some point I want to change my card (once I can get a credit card from a bank in Thailand, cause my Amex card is from The Netherlands). Would be much better if Apple would get with MasterCard. Based on my experience, no issues anywhere.

Same in Europe. I have an Amex card from work. Hotels and most restaurants accept it, most taxis and shops don't. They absolutely hate that card and even if they accept it you practically have to beg them to take it (and even then they will pretend "the machine is broken"). Even in big countries. Try to get a taxi in the queue at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris. They will ask you to stand on the side and beg each taxi driver until they finally get one for you.

Also the damn thing never works in machines, like for public transport tickets :( Which is often a far better option than taxis.

I have to use that card for business expenses and I hate it so much.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#229

Post by dimmke »

elyobo wrote: post #148
CubsFan1060 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But whipping out your phone sucks compared to just tapping your card against a reader. And I’d have said whipping out my card sucks compared to using the watch that’s already on my hand. (Of course that works with my other cards as well)

I don't really understand how whipping out your phone is harder than whipping out your card even if you don't have a watch. In my case I gave up carrying the cards at all a few years back and pay for everything on my phone anyway; the convenience of not needing a wallet or any cards at all is high.

The steps to pay with Apple Pay are you have to take out your phone, double click the button on the side, confirm you want to pay, have it scan your face or do a fingerprint scan, then hold the phone waiting for it to confirm "client side" - plus Apple Pay isn't as widely supported as the "tap to pay" method which has a simple logo you can look for without having to discuss it with the cashier.

Whipping out a much smaller, lighter rectangle and simply tapping it on the reader and putting it back in your pocket takes less than a second

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#230

Post by wkat4242 »

ulfw wrote: post #188
n_ary wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whelp, here in Germany many Starbucks and McDonalds, as well as some restaurants(middle to high end) immediately decline(or block Amex payment at counter), though if I am a bit sneaky and use Apple Pay method they can't see it and sometimes actually work. The issue with other cards here(Germany) is, everything is fake credit, i.e. my Visa/MasterCard is just "Debit" and immediately books paid amount from my bank and s…

What you describe for your particular Amex card isn't a real credit card either. That's a charge card. Germany doesn't do real credit cards much (if at all?)

It's a total difference of point of view.

In Europe, banks don't like you taking out credit cards. Borrowing money is viewed as a weakness and it's best to never do it.

In America it's considered a virtue to have many credit cards and shuffle them so you can be seen to pay it off. Really weird.

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