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Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

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Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#221

Post by jstarfish »

vannevar wrote: post #51
jstarfish wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I will never get over the hypocrisy of owning a quarter of Coca Cola and constantly criticizing Americans for being overweight. That's not hypocrisy, that's savvy. Hypocrisy is an American drinking Coke while complaining about their weight.

Hypocrisy is spending billions of dollars to convince people to buy sugar water and then complaining about their weight. I guess you could call it savvy, but I think predatory is a more apt description.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, only the rhetoric. I'd settle for "unethical."

Predatory would be investing in Coke, diabetes treatment and weight-loss solutions as a package deal.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#222

Post by kelseyfrog »

tech_ken wrote: post #214
lordnacho wrote: post #22

He passed away earlier today, which is I guess why this is here. He's got a point, too. To be a victim is to be helpless, and if you can choose to not see yourself that way, you can at least have some power back.

> To be a victim is to be helpless This seems overly strong? To me "victimhood" just implies that you are the recipient of the negative consequences of someone else's actions, it has nothing to do with your response to those actions. You can be a helpless victim and you can be a resistant victim. You can recognize that something is not your fault, and still act to fix it. But simply eating the blame for everything th…

Deciding who can and can't be a victim is more about other people than it is for the person harmed.

Specifically it's a reality building mechanism where systems that enable harm to occur are shielded from critique in the sense that it renders action against them impotent. Generally, the mechanism is one of individuation of harms. This is most understandable in that victimhood itself is a collective state of being for victims ie: a shared common experience. Share common experiences naturally lead towards systemic-thinking - something we wish to avoid.

What anti-victimhood advocates are doing, whether they know or not, is participating in the creating of a reality where systems which create victims[1] are shielded from systems-level thinking. ie: every case which results in a victim is between individuals.

As a side note: it's incredible weird to participate in a community that advocates for and understands the importance of systems-level thinking but then only applies this to machines rather than social systems.

1. remember that a systems purposes is its consequences

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#223

Post by tech_ken »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #222
tech_ken wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be a victim is to be helpless This seems overly strong? To me "victimhood" just implies that you are the recipient of the negative consequences of someone else's actions, it has nothing to do with your response to those actions. You can be a helpless victim and you can be a resistant victim. You can recognize that something is not your fault, and still act to fix it. But simply eating the blame for everything th…

Deciding who can and can't be a victim is more about other people than it is for the person harmed. Specifically it's a reality building mechanism where systems that enable harm to occur are shielded from critique in the sense that it renders action against them impotent. Generally, the mechanism is one of individuation of harms. This is most understandable in that victimhood itself is a collective state of being for…

Okay I mean yeah but I’m trying to meet this comment thread where it’s at hahaha

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#224

Post by theGnuMe »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #141
ihumanable wrote: post #83

Somewhat the height of survivorship bias. There are a many number of people that don't adopt a victim mentality, work hard, and try to get ahead and just don't. For every Charlie Munger there are tons of working poor that get up everyday, work hard for minimum wage, then go off to their second job. My entire childhood I watched both my parents, who both had 2 jobs, work themselves non-stop to try to provide for us. T…

It's really funny reading his "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" lecture and citing himself as an example, and offhandedly mentioning his numerous wealthy relatives. Coming from a rich family doesn't primarily make things easy; it nearly eliminates the consequences of risk-taking and allows for failing until you stop failing. People who aren't wealthy can't take the gambles and risks the wealthy do.

Jim Carey has a quote about his Dad: “My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him, and so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant, and when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job, and our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father. Not the least of which was that: You can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.”

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#225

Post by faeriechangling »

jjoonathan wrote: post #34

This is true. It is also true that dispensing this particular advice is self-serving for people in power. In a revolution, things get worse before they get better if they get better. Revolutions come at huge negative expected value. However, appeasing powerful forces can also have hugely negative expected value. Sometimes the calculus makes sense, and when it does, you should hope that people are appropriately discou…

The Nazis and Bolshevik’s both swept into power and cemented their power by expertly portraying themselves and their supporters as victims. Somebody convincing themselves and those around them that they are victims can be utterly and totally disconnected from actual victimhood. Victimhood can even be manufactured to create a Casus Belli.

Throw a rock in any hall of power and you won’t be able to help but hit several victims before it hits the floor. Powerful people who accept responsibility for the bad things that happen in the world and blame themselves? Just about the rarest sight one will ever see.

For this reason, I see victimhood as the friend of power, not the foe, as victimhood is basically a universal all purpose justification to do whatever you wanted to do with your power anyways. Actual victims who are powerless usually get fuck all benefit from portraying themselves as victims because they’re actually victims so they’re socially disadvantaged.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#226

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

dexwiz wrote: post #65
profsummergig wrote: post #23

Charlie Munger had great advice in general. And I've learned a lot of good from him. But I will never get over the hypocrisy of owning a quarter of Coca Cola and constantly criticizing Americans for being overweight (he used words like "sloth").

He sponsored what essentially was a prison style dorm. He might have great advice, but it will probably make you a worse human. https://www.fastcompany.com/90740511/heres-what-its-like-liv...

For all the posts here about the excessive costs of higher education, people sure seem to be mad that this fellow tried to do something about it. I'd have been fine with a "prison style dorm" if it had reduced my educational costs.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#227

Post by dexwiz »

profsummergig wrote: post #158
dexwiz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He sponsored what essentially was a prison style dorm. He might have great advice, but it will probably make you a worse human. https://www.fastcompany.com/90740511/heres-what-its-like-liv...

I had read about this dorm plan, and thought it was very brutal. Then I found myself in a windowless room for a day (voluntarily) with a PC and no internet. Literally staring at a wall. The most productive day I've had in a couple of decades. And I started to have second thoughts about his dorm plan. Maybe he was on to something.

I want to hear what day 100 of that is like, not day 1.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#228

Post by [deleted] »

nullindividual wrote: post #152
mmaunder wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you’ve actually failed hard for a very long time - over a decade - and then get a solid kick in the teeth for your efforts, and power through that shit with an optimistic attitude to succeed beyond your own expectations, it’s hard to buy into what Charlie is saying, but I can assure you it’s the absolute truth. You can’t change the hand your dealt or what life continues to deal you, but you can keep working sma…

> You can’t change the hand your dealt or what life continues to deal you, but you can keep working smart and hard to solve it and that’s going to give you a pretty damn good shot. This reads like "pick yourself up by your bootstraps": an impossible task. Could you parrot this line in front of a Walmart checkout clerk?

[deleted]

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#229

Post by didntknowya »

SoftTalker wrote: post #71
jjoonathan wrote: post #34

This is true. It is also true that dispensing this particular advice is self-serving for people in power. In a revolution, things get worse before they get better if they get better. Revolutions come at huge negative expected value. However, appeasing powerful forces can also have hugely negative expected value. Sometimes the calculus makes sense, and when it does, you should hope that people are appropriately discou…

I think it's more self-serving for those in power to encourage a culture of victimhood, where they set themselves up as the saviors. This is a standard political gambit: create or identify a group of victims, and declare that you will get "payback" for them and make their situation better. Of course you don't, but that's OK, you got their votes and you just recycle and amplify that play next time.

those exploiting power have no interest in becoming "saviors". trying to appear as one does not last long as victims as in human nature soon looks for someone to blame- often the most visible

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#230

Post by dan-allen »

Xcelerate wrote: post #96

My mother passed away from cancer when I was 11. Originally when she learned she was terminal, she thought it might be a good idea for me to attend support sessions with the school counselor. Unfortunately in this case, the counselor wasn’t that great at their job, and I came home from school talking about how I was “anxious” and “depressed”—words I had never used before. My mother pulled me out of counseling and tol…

Thanks for sharing this. You’ve articulated a nuanced balance very well.
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