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LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

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Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#221

Post by janalsncm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #204
addicted wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It’s pretty much only in the US that there are union workers and non union workers in the same field. If you haven’t already guessed, this is entirely a ploy by corporations, and the US govt to weaken unions by creating differences where none exist. 2. Unions rarely, if ever, negotiate rights only for their own workers. The massive union protests prior to COVID asking for minimum wage increases didn’t ask for mini…

> pretty much only in the US that there are union workers and non union workers in the same field China. India. Japan. Korea. Pretty much all of Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Africa, Latin America, and Eastern Europe. Unions are prevalent in Northern Europe [1]. That's it. That's the exception. Outside Northern Europe, countries with great workers' rights [2] have between one in four and one in six people in union…

Maybe if China had labor unions their software engineers wouldn’t be working 996.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#222

Post by callalex »

tiffanyh wrote: post #203
coldpie wrote: post #4

Good news for those 700: because we don't have tech worker unions, they are able to individually bargain the terms of their layoff! ...right?

When FANNG companies payout upwards of $1M/year/engineer - seems hard to understand why an employee would need a union.

Those companies are absolutely not paying out 1M/yr to the average engineer. Only a small handful of engineers make that much money.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#223

Post by bogtog »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #105
hackernewds wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold of you to assume it's the same people, that will deliver the same quality of work

Doesn't need to be the same quality if it's 1/5th the price. Businesses care about profits - not quality.

An Indian employee's salary being 1/5th of an American's, doesn't mean their cost to the company is only 1/5th. There is a general organizational/overhead cost to taking on more people. This cost, for one additional person, may be higher than even the American's salary

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#224

Post by aeyes »

tiffanyh wrote: post #203
coldpie wrote: post #4

Good news for those 700: because we don't have tech worker unions, they are able to individually bargain the terms of their layoff! ...right?

When FANNG companies payout upwards of $1M/year/engineer - seems hard to understand why an employee would need a union.

Let's start with on-call, some companies ask to always be on-call to whatever extend the local law permits. No weekend for you.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#225

Post by JumpCrisscross »

janalsncm wrote: post #221
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretty much only in the US that there are union workers and non union workers in the same field China. India. Japan. Korea. Pretty much all of Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Africa, Latin America, and Eastern Europe. Unions are prevalent in Northern Europe [1]. That's it. That's the exception. Outside Northern Europe, countries with great workers' rights [2] have between one in four and one in six people in union…

Maybe if China had labor unions their software engineers wouldn’t be working 996.

> Maybe if China had labor unions their software engineers wouldn’t be working 996

Again, you're ignoring that countries with terrific worker protections have, on average, low union penetration. The one is uncorrelated with the other. In America, unions principally serve as a distraction. We periodically throw a few industries a bone while most workers get zero protection.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#226

Post by janalsncm »

paxys wrote: post #60
rocgf wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, in my circles, most truly thought that this won't have an impact in the compensation levels. Always struck me as incredibly short-sighted and your comment is actually the first I see that explicitly states what I thought as well. There is still an argument that, if you truly want top talent, then that top talent might actually want to live in high COL locations like NY or whatever.

In the US maybe, but there is plenty of top talent in Hyderabad, Bangalore, Pune etc. A couple decades ago they would have all been lining up to immigrate to the US, but with the impossible visa situation and a thriving local startup scene no one really wants to leave anymore.

This may be true, but finding these workers will be much more difficult. An American with a CS degree from a state school is a known entity, more or less. Someone with a 9.5/10 GPA from an Indian school is a question mark.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#227

Post by bee_rider »

tannedNerd wrote: post #5
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #3

> LinkedIn is now ramping up hiring in India, according the person familiar. So, laying off people in the US and hiring in India?

I feel like if US companies are proven to off shore jobs they should take a massive tax hit the same year. Like you are required to pay 5 years worth of the salary of the job you off shored into unemployment or retraining funds.

Companies outsource because they think they can find better workers in another country (where better is some combination of better skills, lower compensation, or harder working). Fair enough. We should welcome that kind of competition, it makes everyone better when we fairly and do our best.

They also outsource because they think they can take advantage of lax labor and/or environmental regulation in other countries. We should impose tariffs to level the playing field when countries don’t have these sort of regulations.

Competition keeps us honest and innovating, it shouldn’t be avoided, it just needs to be fair and non-exploitive.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#228

Post by meowtimemania »

aeyes wrote: post #224
tiffanyh wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When FANNG companies payout upwards of $1M/year/engineer - seems hard to understand why an employee would need a union.

Let's start with on-call, some companies ask to always be on-call to whatever extend the local law permits. No weekend for you.

That doesn’t happen at LinkedIn. I don’t totally understand what I would have to gain from a union when I feel like my employer treats me really well. The union feels like unneeded overhead

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#229

Post by bombcar »

hotpotamus wrote: post #68
rocgf wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, in my circles, most truly thought that this won't have an impact in the compensation levels. Always struck me as incredibly short-sighted and your comment is actually the first I see that explicitly states what I thought as well. There is still an argument that, if you truly want top talent, then that top talent might actually want to live in high COL locations like NY or whatever.

I've had private equity people tell me prior to the pandemic that if a job can be done from home, then it can be done from India. It basically makes sense to me. I know the common rejoinders about time zones (which ignores that there are plenty of cheaper countries south of the US) and culture/language, but I suppose we'll see if the FAANGs can overcome those issues; many companies have gone before in this regard. It…

For small companies it can be hard finding the "right person" and retaining them remotely in India - but for large companies they've worked out many of the kinks and issues and it's quite powerfully productive now.

Anyone who ignores that is falling victim to "how it used to be" not "how it is now" - just like the American car manufacturers who slept on the horrible but improving Japanese manufacturers decades ago.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#230

Post by toomuchtodo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #225
janalsncm wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if China had labor unions their software engineers wouldn’t be working 996.

> Maybe if China had labor unions their software engineers wouldn’t be working 996 Again, you're ignoring that countries with terrific worker protections have, on average, low union penetration. The one is uncorrelated with the other. In America, unions principally serve as a distraction. We periodically throw a few industries a bone while most workers get zero protection.

Unions are the only path to success when Congress is operating in a degraded governance state. Do you know how many worker hours will be exhausted in suboptimal labor conditions waiting for Congress to pass human labor protections? Strong legislative labor protections would be wonderful, but they are not on offer in the present day United States.

Congress won't function until the cohorts who vote for representatives unwilling to champion broadly popular policy or labor protections dies out. That's going to take a hot minute, even assuming a death rate of 1.8M voters over the age of 55/year.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/what-you-need-to-kn... (Control-F "Figure 1")

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