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How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

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Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a voracious reader (sci-fi) and I would also put it best as processing what I read as facts. I've never been able to daydream or create worlds in my minds eye such that I get lost in them (which is something I hear people who daydream are able to do). I think part of this is why I've always found creative writing to be difficult. For example in grade school I was certain I was among the few that read the most, ye…

Out of curiosity, how do you keep track of the spaces the characters move in if you can't visualise anything?

I like how the other commentator explained it.

It feels like proprioception in a way. An abstract sense of knowing--facts internalized, without visual feedback.

As I read each word in a descriptive scene, it feels like my mind pulls in their definitions and tangled web of related concepts (facts), as well as personal memories, then establishes that scene as a "new memory".

When I read "Raindrops glistened in the afternoon light" my first reaction is to think of what that would feel and smell like for example. I can sort of imagine what that would look like, visually, but it's hazy and doesn't come naturally. And definitely not at the same acuity described by others.

Perhaps I'm just bad at visualization. And because I'm bad at it, my visualization skills have further atrophied and my other senses become preferred. Sounds probable that trying to stimulate visualization like in the exercises proposed in the article can redevelop the ability to visualize.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#222

As someone with aphantasia, most of the replies here prompt me to think ugly thoughts about humanity. Judgemental, hateful, repugnant species. There's really no hope for the primate line. With any luck, some thoughtless company will engineer a replacement. If only I could visualize that outcome.

Well, the author of the article is not trying to sell you anything, so why don't you let the haters be haters, and give it a try. The best that can happen is that it might help. The worse that can happen is that you are going to "waste" some time. He miss every shot you don't take.

I've tried the technique (familiar with Win Wenger's work in general, have taught variations of the technique, etc). It improved many things, but did not give me voluntary access to mental imagery.

The article is fine; was fine when it was originally written.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#223
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I am like you in that I cannot actually see anything visual in my minds eye but I can still 'visualise' it. For example, I can rotate a die in my minds eye without actually seeing it. It's hard to explain. It was a revelation when I found out that most people can actually see things visually in their minds eye. A friend of mine can actually place imagined objects into their field of view, like AR.

Hmm I can imagine what something will look like in a position in a scene but I wouldn’t call it AR like. This is a really interesting thread. I always thought people were much the same. But recently I also learned that my wife just sees words when reading a book whereas I see a “movie”. Also I will project words in my mind to inspect them visually to see how to spell them, and if they look ok. And when studying I rec…

Omg, the boulder thing is something that happened to me a lot when I was a kid. Then it stopped for many years and then at some point I could do it again. I don't know you can make it happen. It scares me a little bit to tell you the truth. If it happens now days I try to shake it off.

But yes, wth is that thing?

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A friend of mine can actually place imagined objects into their field of view, like AR. I'm so jealous.

That's likely something that anyone with a 'mind eye' can do. I wonder if that's something that can be trained, just like 'fixing' aphantasia can be trained [1]: - Sit in front of a table, with a large vase of flowers on it. - Remove the vase and put it behind you. - Looking at the now empty table, try to remember the look of the vase on it. This is how it 'feels' being able to put imagined objects into your FOV. You…

Well, I have a mind's eye. I've gotten quite deep into it before for dissociative reasons. But it just doesn't seem to work very well for me at any other time. Whenever I try to imagine something like that I get frustrated that I can't really "see" it well.

Yes, I can imagine everything about what it would be like to see it. But I cannot actually see it.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#225

So, wait, are people normally actually seeing images, with their eyes, when they imagine what something looks like? Like, the brown-blackness of the back of your eyelids gets replaced with something you actually see, like it's projected there? I can imagine what something looks like, and I guess I sort of 'see' it, but closing my eyes doesn't make it any more real. It doesn't seem to involve the eyes or any part of t…

I have exactly zero images in my "mind's eye" I have a blank movie screen.

I can remember dreams, although they're pretty abstract. I take a picture of my kids before I take them out so if they get lost I can tell people what they are wearing. (learned that the hard way)

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#226

This reminds me of a time when I was meditating in my dimly lit office after work some years ago. For context, I had been meditating daily for 20-30 minutes quite consistently at the time. During this session, about 15 minutes in I had the sensation of "seeing with my eyes closed". I could see very clearly my workspace, desk, monitors, keyboard, etc. It was one of the most remarkable experiences of my life. I am wond…

What's the distinction between vivid mental imagery and a closed-eye hallucination? I have aphantasia too (what I used to call "the opposite of a photographic memory") and it always struck me as odd that seeing imagery with closed eyes is considered normal. We put people in mental institutions for hearing voices in their head, but we get a pass if we're hallucinating a visual scene. My theory is that it's a spectrum…

There's a distinction between delirium, being in a delusional state, where you can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality, which is pathological, vs the normal everyday action of replaying a sensory memory in your head, or imagining sensory input in order to explore an idea. Delusional states may or may not involve a sensory component. It's not a spectrum from one to the other.

The term "hallucination" is tricky because the usual connotation is that it is part of a delusion, whereas some people can generate "closed-eye hallucinations" (or whatever you want to call it) as an alternative kind of mental imagery.

For me personally, the distinction between ordinary "mental imagery" vs "closed-eye hallucinations" that I generate under conscious control is that they are subjectively quite different. The former feel like they are in a different "mental domain" than visual input, and I can perceive this imagery with my eyes open. Another commenter in this thread called this a third frame buffer in their head, separate from their eyes. The latter kind of imagery feels like it is coming from my retina, but it's very dim, and I can only see it with my eyes closed, or in a completely dark room. Apparently, visual input from my retina interferes with this second kind of imagery. And it's this kind of imagery that the OP discusses. You can train yourself to experience it. I've managed to improve both kinds of mental imagery by practicing.

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#227
post #40

I would be careful with the eye rubbing, as that’s an important risk factor for keratoconus: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6848869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9800344/

I take the heals of my palms and apply gentle pressure, just long enough to create phonemes. So, not rubbing. (Not that this too might not be a good idea to do too often).

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#228
Having only discovered Aphantasia in my 6th decade on the planet, it's safe to say that you can't miss what you never had. That said, in a FB forum that discusses Aphantasia, a few people who previously had the ability to 'see memories', were devastated by the (stroke) loss of it. Upon describing my situation, one friend immediately asked incredulously, "How do you jerk off?" I'm intrigued with the article. That a "Mind's Eye" could be developed is an exciting possibility. BTW, This is a tight, short, Hank Green video that I send to folks who have no idea what I'm talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A91tvp0b1fY

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#229
post #31

So, wait, are people normally actually seeing images, with their eyes, when they imagine what something looks like? Like, the brown-blackness of the back of your eyelids gets replaced with something you actually see, like it's projected there? I can imagine what something looks like, and I guess I sort of 'see' it, but closing my eyes doesn't make it any more real. It doesn't seem to involve the eyes or any part of t…

Yeah it's not a figure of speech, there's LITERALLY another framebuffer (or whatever you want to call it) in my mind in addition to the ones from left eye and right eye. I don't need to close my eyes to do see it (but it helps). I can draw to it, with some effort . Daydreams get painted on it when my mind drifts. It's the stage on which I experience memories. Most people are like this, with variation in the degree of…

Yes, I have another framebuffer too. It's interesting to me that it seems to be located a little bit above and behind my head. Does it feel to you like your framebuffer is physically located at any particular place?

One interesting effect of psychedelics that I've noticed is that they can cause the framebuffer behind my head and the framebuffer in front of my head (i.e. on the insides of my eyelids) merge into one framebuffer. It's quite an odd and fascinating state to be in!

Re: How to see bright, vivid images in your mind’s eye (2016)

#230
post #73

I think I have very good visualization skills. To the point where I can solve three dimensional geometry problems in my head with nothing external. However, I never "see" anything with my two eyes in the way I can see an afterglow of a candle or a window, as described in the video. I see with a "third-eye" or a "minds-eye." Never with me real two eyes. This means I can visualize at any point, eyes closed or open. I c…

That's how I experience mental visualization as well. It's as if there is one framebuffer in front of my head (what I see in the real world, or inside my eyelids when my eyes are closed), and a separate imaginary framebuffer that feels like it's located above and behind my head. Is yours also located behind your head?

An interesting effect of some psychedelics is that they can cause my front framebuffer and back framebuffer to merge into one framebuffer. It's quite a strange experience. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this as well!

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