I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#221

Post by nfw2 » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:08 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #181

ilaksh wrote: post #24

"Writing a browser" (from scratch) at this point basically means you are implementing a type of portable operating-system-in-a-box (the web platform) and that it will be compatible with whatever Google decides to add to theirs. The browser is so comprehensive in functionality and APIs, and such a challenge to keep up with Google's constant churn of new features and total dominance, that not even Microsoft could do it…

> The browser is so comprehensive in functionality and APIs Not really. If you limit your scope by saying that you're building a hypertext document viewer , it suddenly becomes approachable. A lot of the functionality is all that PWA stuff no one asked for and no one is using for anything good anyway. WebSQL? IndexedDB? Service workers? WebGL? WebGPU? WebBluetooth? WebRTC? Just act like it all doesn't exist. 99% of a…

"PWA stuff no one asked for"

You don't speak for everybody.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#222

Post by grishka » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

lib-dev wrote: post #207

gen220 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where UNIX-inspired systems run most software, I like to imagine that it’s possible for a UNIX-like browser to become dominant. Recall that UNIX (and C) were built (and adopted) in response to perceived over-complexities in contemporary systems. Maybe in 20 years we’ll recall + interact with Chrome like how people in the 80s recall + interacted with Multics or OS/360. To complete the analogy, I guess you’d…

People interested in building browsers should look into WebKit. You can use that for HTML/CSS/JS rendering and save a lot of time/effort.

But the thing is that if I were to build a browser, I'd start from the requirement that websites should be treated like malware that can't be trusted. Applying my ideas to a preexisting enormous codebase feels troublesome.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#223

Post by grishka » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:10 PM UTC

nfw2 wrote: post #221

grishka wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The browser is so comprehensive in functionality and APIs Not really. If you limit your scope by saying that you're building a hypertext document viewer , it suddenly becomes approachable. A lot of the functionality is all that PWA stuff no one asked for and no one is using for anything good anyway. WebSQL? IndexedDB? Service workers? WebGL? WebGPU? WebBluetooth? WebRTC? Just act like it all doesn't exist. 99% of a…

"PWA stuff no one asked for" You don't speak for everybody.

I've yet to see someone take a PWA seriously.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#224

Post by Ensorceled » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

lijok wrote: post #209

Ensorceled wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US makes up a mere ~4% of the worlds population So you concede all the other points? "This revision represents 11 million more people living in extreme poverty, largely driven by South Asia (5 million) and the Middle East and North Africa (4 million)." World Bank is claiming there are 11 million more people living in extreme poverty in 2023[1]. [1] https://blogs.worldbank.org/opendata/march-2023-global-pover...

> So you concede all the other points? No, I simply did not consider points made from a US-centric worldview to be valid in this discussion. > World Bank is claiming there are 11 million more people living in extreme poverty in 2023[1]. Compared to when?

Read. The. Article.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#225

Post by BimJeam » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

You do it right man. I sit in the same boat as big corporations just start to go on my nerves. I use Linux, try to stay away from most google software but use a chinese mobile so I do not need to be logged in any Google or Microsoft based store. It is tough but I think you go the right way. If I can be of any help let me know. Maybe you create a github (bah Microsoft) or similar repository where people can help you testing and/or developing. You don't have to start completely from scratch as there are some engines available. I wish you luck and dedication.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#226

Post by WuxiFingerHold » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

soyasis wrote: post #53

On the political note of the article: yes, the world is fucked up and it is exhausting to only read fucked up news. I personally believe that disconnecting from reality and becoming 'apolitical' implies giving up on humanity; that is giving up on your kids, nephews and the children of your best friends. No need to change the world, a small change in your community is more than enough. Specially as coders, what we bui…

Disconnecting from the news industry does not automatically imply disconnecting from reality. At least I hope so as I consume non-technical news maybe once a week.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#227

Post by harlanji » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

Go for it. Sounds like a good use of time compared to listening to the radio or browsing tech news.

I'm in a similar place, where for the most part I'd rather be in a kitchen washing dishes for minimum wage than managed by a tech guy (and have primarily been out of tech for 6 years, occasionally freelancing). Although I am strongly called to build my vision of tech and continue to do so on my own time.

There are similar solo "built by a crazy person" projects out there like TempleOS where you could find synergy. I'm another "crazy person" who's building a stack with early-2000s web tech ("web 1.5"), so if you look hard there's even synergy there... support 2005-era web and I'm on board.

Cheers.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#228

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:15 PM UTC

livrem wrote: post #118

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar idea of a minimal html browser, which was dismissed by the gemini authors. Should be reasonably doable if you don't implement all web 2.0. No css - user decides appearance, no javascript - it would require full web 2.0 anyway, and a bit of webcompat, start with , , and there you go.

I would not want a simple browser to replace gemini, but I would be happy to use a simple web browser in addition to gemini. It would be nice to only have to fire up a big bloated real browser for doing banking and such things.

Yes, in addition, maybe even 2in1. As a quick hack gemini can be converted to html on the fly.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#229

Post by savingsPossible » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:15 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #136

The first part of this blog really resonated with me. Stuff is bad, fascism is on the rise, mega corporations control more and more wealth, those two things feed on each other, book banning in the US, war in Ukraine, my country is burning due to global warming, ... and all of this bad news damages the psyche. I've been thinking of how I can help, that I should stop reading so much negative news, for my own mental hea…

The first step is to decide to push back

It is ok to be inefficient. And it is ok to change your mind later.

But abandoning helplessness is a big and wonderful first step

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#230

Post by stainablesteel » Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:15 PM UTC

i think this is a great idea, i hope you find others that are willing to pitch in

this isn't the first frustration-funded browser post i've seen, i think this is a common phenomenon. individual people want to gain control and this is a good sign.