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UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

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Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#221

Post by kmlx »

blackoil wrote: post #199
kmlx wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why take on debt if you don't need to? what debt? > UPI is directly connected to your bank account. oh, then it's a hard pass from me. i do not connect anything to my bank account and keep cards in separate banks for security.

> what debt? You are taking debt whenever you use credit card. If you miss/forget payment, some tech fault or sometimes just because you can be charged hefty interest or charges. You can keep a separate account for your daily transactions.

sorry for the confusion. i use the term “credit card” generically for debit and credit cards.

most people i know have debit cards.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#222

Post by captn3m0 »

sudshekhar wrote: post #210
Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

You can create an alphanumeric UPI handle on most UPI applications. This will hide your phone number. Eg: My UPI id is sudshekhar.cheq@trans. Most other UPI apps allow you to create such handles AFAIK. Nowadays, you can also keep your bank details private by using UPI with a wallet instead of savings account.

The UPI protocol lets the acquirer lookup this to get additional information, and this is being used by several acquirers, notably Smartbuy@HDFC to provide phone numbers to merchants.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#223

Post by vinay_ys »

wtmt wrote: post #136
me551ah wrote: post #111

The major difference between UPI payments and Credit Cards is that there is no 'surcharge'. This is what makes it very viable for small merchants to accept payments of minimal amounts.

This is why banks have never been happy with UPI because their costs to support aren’t fully recovered and it’s a drain. They’ve supported it mainly because of the government pushing them to. MDR (the charges the merchants pay) started coming to UPI too, a few months ago. The “free” party won’t last a lot longer.

UPI payments to merchants have had MDR for a while now. And there is a government fund to compensate banks as well. Cost on its own isn't the real reason for banks to be unhappy. Banks were unhappy because they were not used to this kind of pace of feature growth and user growth. It put operational stress on their teams and their relatively old systems (much newer than western banks). They also saw it as a zero-sum game where UPI had opportunity cost w.r.t growth/profit in credit cards. But the reality is somewhat different. Affluent class still uses credit cards (for loyalty points, irony!) and cards market has grown quite well too. And as digital usage expands and banks have embraced digital, they see UPI as an engagement driver and they make money on selling other financial products including credit cards and loans. Anyone who isn't thinking this way will be killed by competition soon enough.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#224

Post by sudshekhar »

Mandatum wrote: post #131
itsbits wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now Indian airports have outlets to create UPIs for foreigners visiting the country

Can’t wait to hand over my passport and drivers license to some random person after security wearing a uniform and holding an iPad after I get off an 8 hour red-eye. Surely nothing can go wrong.

The physical verification process is required to respect the AML guidelines established by the RBI. The process itself takes less than 5 minutes but must be done once the foreigner lands in India.

In Blr/Mumbai/Delhi, our team can arrange for home verifications as well.

https://chequpi.com/

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#225

Post by captn3m0 »

kmlx wrote: post #177
berkes wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere and certainly not amex. In e.g. The Netherlands, mostly cashless society now, creditcards are hardly ever used by locals and so many POS won't have the infra to accept CC payments. The world is not the US and the US isn't the world.

> the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere most of the developed world does. even Eastern Europe have transformed themselves into a NFC bonanza. > The Netherlands the netherlands is the wrong example. it has always been an outlier when it comes to card payments. case in point: you can't even make a Visa/Mastercard payment in an AH supermarket, you need a Maestro card. > The world is not the…

I paid almost eveywhere in Amsterdam with my Indian Visa card and it worked quite well.

Even the GBV Transport network lets you use NFC cards directly, without having to buy a separate card or ticket. You get a charge 6 days later after they tally up your trips.

I like UPI, but paying with NFC Cards is so much simpler, easier, and faster.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#226

Post by vinay_ys »

signal11 wrote: post #203
vinay_ys wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two ways for a foreigners to use UPI. 1. If you are from one of G20 countries (for now, will expand to other countries), you can get a prepaid UPI digital wallet at the airport where you land. Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. You don't need an India phone number or India bank account. You can load money into this prepaid wallet…

1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited) 2) opening an account isn’t practical for tourists, but of course if you’re living in India for even a short while, it’s worth it. 3) Allegedly UPI will work for NRIs / OCIs with foreign phone numbers. I…

> 1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited)

These money exchange counters are before airport security and accessible without "entering" the airport.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#227

Post by sudshekhar »

captn3m0 wrote: post #222
sudshekhar wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can create an alphanumeric UPI handle on most UPI applications. This will hide your phone number. Eg: My UPI id is sudshekhar.cheq@trans. Most other UPI apps allow you to create such handles AFAIK. Nowadays, you can also keep your bank details private by using UPI with a wallet instead of savings account.

The UPI protocol lets the acquirer lookup this to get additional information, and this is being used by several acquirers, notably Smartbuy@HDFC to provide phone numbers to merchants.

I think most data selling happens via branch employees / telecom operators instead of "at the top"

Banks / UPI vendors have to comply with very strict data regulations and the confirmation of a "data leak" is enough to attract heavy penalties from the NPCI and RBI. Most banks and UPI service providers will never risk it, specially post the DEPA guidelines which have recently been adopted.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#228

Post by pcthrowaway »

vinay_ys wrote: post #182
davelondon wrote: post #125

I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. This meant: 1) There were some cashless fast food outlets that I couldn't eat at 2) There was no way for me to book an intercity bus ticket I eventually managed to get a bus ticket by sweet-talking someone in a shop to use their personal UPI account in exchange for cash. I fear ther…

There are two ways for a foreigners to use UPI. 1. If you are from one of G20 countries (for now, will expand to other countries), you can get a prepaid UPI digital wallet at the airport where you land. Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. You don't need an India phone number or India bank account. You can load money into this prepaid wallet…

> Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well.

> You can get a local prepaid phone number sim at the airport.

Worth noting, do all this before you leave the airport. Assuming you land in Delhi, once you leave the airport there's no way to get back in unless you have flight information to show

This turned into a pretty big problem for me on my first trip to India once I exited the airport with no way to make phone calls, no data, no sense of where anything was, and no rupees (I hadn't exchanged cash yet)

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#229

Post by cornholio »

phantomathkg wrote: post #146
cornholio wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it's a good example of developing countries skipping technological nodes and ending up with better solutions. For example, most of eastern Europe was already using fiber/copper Ethernet 15-20 years ago, while most western Europe and US were stuck with crappy DSL lines. In the payment processing sphere, we are stuck with a duopoly that charges insane fees for something that was very complex and labor intens…

But is QR Code scanning a better solution? Credit card cloning only affect the legacy magnetic strip I think? Someone can just stick a QR code on top of the office one. [1] [1]: https://www.straitstimes.com/tech/can-i-trust-this-qr-code-c...

For in person transactions, NFC is perfect. For internet payments, a dynamically generated QR code is secure and far superior to the current setup:

  * find physical card or virtual in an app

  * copy paste or insert "secret" numbers, and trust the website won't save them, because they are static

  * insert a bunch of personal data which the merchant has no real reason to know, but that is used for "fraud detection" because they don't trust you are the real owner of the "secret" static password

  * go back to your phone and get the SMS/3dsecure validation prompt, because it turns out your bank also doesn't trust the secrecy of the "secret" numbers they issued you

  * finally, pray to the cave gods the transaction has gone trough the complex duct tape and  bubble gum contraption, is not flagged for review or reversed by the various intermediaries etc.
It's all a baroque mess, multiple layers of cruft accumulated over the decades. To compare, even a crypto transaction is much smoother and simpler, navigate to checkout, scan the QR code with your wallet app, press pay and you are done. And that's not to praise crypto, any solution designed from scratch for the age of the internet will be much better.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#230

Post by vinay_ys »

sudshekhar wrote: post #208
signal11 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited) 2) opening an account isn’t practical for tourists, but of course if you’re living in India for even a short while, it’s worth it. 3) Allegedly UPI will work for NRIs / OCIs with foreign phone numbers. I…

Mentioned this on the parent thread, but there are new UPI apps coming out in the market which don't need a bank account. https://chequpi.com/ For example

Nice and clean! Congrats!
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