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Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

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Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#221

Post by iso8859-1 »

BeetleB wrote: post #86
diffeomorphism wrote: post #24

Wait just a moment. Libreoffice had python for years, but nobody cared and instead complained about needing 100% compatible VBA for "real work". Where are those people now?

The problem with Libreoffice was that the python support was purely documented.

I wrote some new docs on this recently:

* https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Macros/Python_Guide/Call...

By having Python in Basic, it becomes available to cells too, since Basic macros are callable from cells.

Note that you may need to reduce the security level to 'medium' in the drop down Tools->Options->Libre Office->Security->Macro Security. When LibreOffice opens, it will ask you whether you want to enable macros or not.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#222

Post by yunohn »

benterix wrote: post #113
alexk307 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I would never want to use this if I was running a security minded business. Why would it be okay to send out my entire dataset to the Microsoft cloud to run a few simple queries. How long is the data stored on your servers? Since it’s operating on the data directly, it’s not possible to anonymize or redact the contents of the data.

Practically speaking, if you are running recent versions of Windows (I don't remember when exactly this trend started, with 2000? XP?), you have basically no control over what data you send to them and when. You can try to block traffic but it will interfere with normal Windows operations. You can try to investigate and play cat and mouse game with Microsoft, but they will always be one step ahead of you - unless you…

That is some tinfoil concoction, not reality.

There’s a world of difference between having a file stored locally in Windows and one purposefully uploaded to Office 365 for data analysis.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#223

Post by jedberg »

baz00 wrote: post #81

I have to see some red flags here. The very nature and power of Excel comes from the fact that workbooks can stand alone. This means that the process is eternally tied to the cloud now. So when you, 3 years down the line, have to open a workbook from your deceased colleague, you are at the whim of the vendor supporting the existence of this integration. Step one of any workload will always be "work out how to make th…

This will be true whether it uses the cloud or not. Excel worksheets can already have external links (both on the Web and to other files). If those web resources or other files aren't available, you're out of luck! And the older ones may only open on software that no longer runs on modern machines.

This is why it's important to restore your backups once in a while, or in this case, validate your critical files.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#224

Post by mulmen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #195
sixothree wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you _really_ think I've spent the past 10 years getting files like this and I still don't understand the reason. I didn't ask for an explanation. I asked for a fix. What are you doing here?? I can provide instructions on how to do this until the cows come home. I will still get files with these issues. Is that not obvious? Do you really think I want to examine _tens of thousands of rows_ in documents that are 100…

> Do you _really_ think I've spent the past 10 years getting files like this and I still don't understand the reason. I didn't ask for an explanation. I asked for a fix. I don’t believe you’ve been doing it that long and haven't found the fix. Apply appropriate formatting if you have long strings of numeric digits [as long as they can’t have leading zeroes] that you want stored as numbers but displayed without scient…

The text import wizard does work. The problem with it is that everyone has to use it and if anyone doesn’t then your data is silently mangled.

In the past I have added an apostrophe to the front of any integer that should be displayed as a string. Excel will not display that leading single apostrophe. It of course taints that data forever but I consider “Exported to Excel” a terminal state anyway.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#225

Post by ylk »

localhost wrote: post #141
cableshaft wrote: post #13

I wish it wasn't solely powered only by Microsoft Cloud and could support python running locally, but regardless I think this will still be huge and single-handedly modernizes Excel by a large margin. This alone could eliminate the need for websites that just want this sort of data. I can think of a past project at a previous job I did building an analytics website used only by a handful of people internally that cou…

There are few key reasons for running in a hypervisor isolated container on Azure with no access to the Internet: - We can guarantee a consistent experience for all users. Imagine having to maintain your own local distribution of Python and guaranteeing that it works with Excel as versions diverge over time? Yikes. - We make it possible to share your Excel workbook with other users and have the calculation just work.…

Could you not achieve the same by shipping the required tools with Excel and running them inside a Windows Sandbox? Isolation isn't as good, but it probably protects users against the threats you/they care about?

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#226

Post by ikrenji »

dsagal wrote: post #211

Grist is a spreadsheet with Python support (I am a founder). Python does make some formulas far easier. Nice to see Excel has data science libraries included from the start, that's something we've had our eyes on for a while. On the other hand, Grist is open source and can be run locally.

does it make you nervous to basically have microsoft as your primary competition now? :)

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#227

Post by WorldMaker »

pid-1 wrote: post #65
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Python, with the required numerical analysis libraries is a pain to setup, and there are a ton of ways for it to get messed up. Doing everything in the cloud massively simplifies deployment and support.

Microsoft could ship its own Python distro within Excel. The biggest problem is that historically Guido / the Steering Council have avoided being involved in how py libs are distribuited, so there are many ways to do everything. But if you do have an opinion and means to enforce it, mantaining a Python environment can be a quite smooth experience.

A complication here is how large the Python distro this appears to be using is. I don't know if you've ever set up a container with all of anaconda, scikit, statsmodels, pandas, Matplotlib, seaborn, and more but it gets pretty big. A lot of people would complain about the bloat if Excel installed it by default.

Another complication is they claim the container isn't just "a docker container", but for increased security isolation (they don't want a repeat of VBA malware) it's a mini-VM focused to run on top of Hyper-V (the Windows Hypervisor) itself. That's a really complicated install process on the average machine (like installing WSL2) that sometimes involves flipping entire Windows Features on, so also something unlikely to be a smooth experience out of the box for Excel.

It might be neat if they made that an optional install and let users have offline support, but it sounded like they wanted to focus on online and collaborative UX first.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#228

Post by gpjt »

mritchie712 wrote: post #192
gpjt wrote: post #100

Back in 2005, some friends and I started a company called Resolver Systems to build a Python-enabled spreadsheet, which we called Resolver One. Sadly, it never took off in the marketplace, and we had to pivot; we would up creating PythonAnywhere, an online coding and hosting environment, which worked out pretty well and was acquired by Anaconda last year. And now, the circle is closed :-) (Just for clarity: the team…

I built my first app on PythonAnywhere! I've had stuff running on there for almost a decade now. I loved being able to make small tweaks to the app directly in the PythonAnywhere web app. Such a great product. Really missed stuff like that when I started using GCP/AWS.

That's awesome, glad you like it :-D

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#229

Post by swyx »

worth checking out Quadratic for an open source approach to Python + Spreadsheets: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456509

theres going to be multiple people tackling this problem but I see it as a worthy one, theres no reason we should be needing VBA in the future when we can run Python in browsers.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Python to Excel

#230

Post by datavirtue »

localhost wrote: post #141
cableshaft wrote: post #13

I wish it wasn't solely powered only by Microsoft Cloud and could support python running locally, but regardless I think this will still be huge and single-handedly modernizes Excel by a large margin. This alone could eliminate the need for websites that just want this sort of data. I can think of a past project at a previous job I did building an analytics website used only by a handful of people internally that cou…

There are few key reasons for running in a hypervisor isolated container on Azure with no access to the Internet: - We can guarantee a consistent experience for all users. Imagine having to maintain your own local distribution of Python and guaranteeing that it works with Excel as versions diverge over time? Yikes. - We make it possible to share your Excel workbook with other users and have the calculation just work.…

Another half-baked Microsoft cloud thing. Get wrapped around that axle? No thanks.
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