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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#221

Post by ransom1538 »

basisword wrote: post #164
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

"The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. "

I was so pissed by this I created a way to find experts. People that actually studied the issue, have actual publish papers on the topic. What I found was no one cared. No one wanted "experts" - they want a specialist that is in their network and close.

Example of searching for mohs surgury. https://www.opendoctor.io/research/?research_papers=mohs&zip...

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#222

Post by ArisakaDJB »

Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

I'm not from the U.S. but I was that kid. I broke my teeth when I was 6. My dad took me to the local dentist who told me to "leave him as it is" for a decade.

Except my teeth were my second teeth, and they were half broken. I was walking around with half-blackened by the rot teeth, which caused all sorts of health problems on top of all the bullying and the first kiss kids tend to take came to me after I fixed the teeth.

And don't get me started with my chronic illness that I've been looking for diagnosis for the last 10+ years.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#223

Post by prakhar897 »

I really lucked out that Indians families push for Doctor/Engineer career so hard. My family has dentists, surgeons, general practice doctors etc. This gives me immense leverage as trusted second opinion is just a call away.

Also, Can anyone tell why don't more people fly to other countries for these procedures? Paying something like 6k$ for a crown is pure extortion. In India, a decent one (with quality equivalent to US) costs around 60$. That a difference of 100x.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#224

Post by slim »

Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

the whole discipline is based on interpretation of symptoms. the job of a doctor is exactly like debugging a live system except when it crashes you don't get to restart it. they actually investigate by testing their suspected diagnostic on you. they literally give you a medicine and don't know if it will work. that's their normal process.

I think what happened to that dentist is he changed his diagnostic because of an external factor, like realising that removing the teeth is less risky with regards to getting sued by you.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#225

Post by basisword »

ransom1538 wrote: post #221
basisword wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

"The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. " I was so pissed by this I created a way to find experts. People that actually studied the issue, have actual publish papers on the topic. What I found was no one cared. No one wanted "experts" - they want a specialist that is in their network and close. Example of searching for mohs surgury. https://www.opendoctor.io/research/?research_papers=mohs&zip..…

Interesting service, thanks for sharing. I think most people are looking for their GP to be able to refer them to the correct specialist which seems fair. It shouldn’t be on the patient to try to find them. But good website nonetheless! (FYI it doesn’t display great on mobile Safari - content too wide so there is horizontal scrolling).

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#226

Post by svara »

Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry.

To be fair, in your story the "former head of the province’s dental association" apparently did know his craft, indicating that competence is rewarded in dentistry also...

There are a lot of doctors and dentists, and as in any field, mastership of a profession is rare. So you did the obvious and correct thing of finding someone more competent when you had doubts.

That would honestly have reinforced my trust in medicine more than do the opposite...

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#227

Post by csomar »

rossdavidh wrote: post #12

At the very end of the article: "This article originally ran in the February 1997 issue of Reader’s Digest." Surely this should be noted in the HN title?

I am guessing today the prognosis will be different and all dentists will give him the same diagnosis. The sub-title will be

> From all dentists, I got a quote of $29,850!

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#228

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

basisword wrote: post #164
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

This is very true. I had a SO with severe chronic gastric pain and they got passed around by doctors for years. One jerk wrote "drug seeking behavior" into her file and that made things even worse. Finally someone took her seriously, got imagery done, and discovered surgery was necessary.

In US healthcare you have to be your own advocate and be willing to push. The system breaks down if you don't have a routine and obvious illness.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#229

Post by selfmodruntime »

Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

Similar story here. I went to a dentist, who with a sad look told me that all my wisdom teeth needed pulling. She recommended me to an oral surgeon who agreed and wanted to do the surgery, but not without first handing me a letter to sign which stated that I would not sue her if I lost feelings in my face or developed some kind of permanent pain.

Seemed fine to me, but my father insisted to ask a friend of his who is a dentist. Turns out my wisdom teeth were completely fine and none needed pulling. My pain just stemmed from me grinding my teeth at night.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#230

Post by moshegramovsky »

kashunstva wrote: post #70
moshegramovsky wrote: post #57

I eventually found a great dentist. The first time I went to his office, it was extremely obvious that he was a Christian. Did that make me trust him more? Yes it sure did, but only because he was young. I would also trust an Orthodox Jewish dentist, but there aren't any here in Seattle that I can find. If I needed a lot of really expensive work, I would probably just go to a high end place in Mexico.

I don’t understand how the religious inclinations of the dentist have anything to do with their trustworthiness in terms of their diagnoses and treatment recommendations.

Note that I am not religious. The last religious thing I did was my bar mitzvah, which was like 35 years ago.

I felt like my dentist was morally upstanding.

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