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Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#221

Post by lockhouse »

111111IIIIIII wrote: post #219
lockhouse wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lock-in for that is on Nvidia's side, not Apple's.

No it's not. macOS explicitly will not support external GPUs of any kind. It's not limited to Nvidia, although Nvidia is clearly the target.

Can I use CUDA without an Nvidia graphics card? That was my point, just like Apple they’ve locked this functionality to their hardware. Which is fine, they developed it, it’s their right to do so.

I’m well aware of the limitations of discrete graphics on Macs.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#222

Post by 111111IIIIIII »

seanhunter wrote: post #179
111111IIIIIII wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the pic, the ortholinear keyboard is not the full width of the 16", so it wouldn't be anymore split than your tiny planck. A full-width ortholinear with excessive keys would be another story.

Mine is split in the sense of having the main keys in the middle of the keyboard on your strong fingers (like the old typematrix which was the first ortholinear keyboard I ever used) it’s not in separate modules like a kinesis or ergodox obviously. I don’t know if that would work on a laptop without it being excessively wide. For my personal mix of tendon and joint problems actual separation isn’t helpful because som…

On the Framework 16, there is unused space on each side of the centered keyboard w/o number pad. With a split keyboard module, that unused space could simply be moved to the center.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#223

Post by the_overseer »

lhl wrote: post #15
cowpig wrote: post #3

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the s…

In case you haven't seen, in April, Framework published an official Optimizing Ubuntu Battery Life guide that is quite useful: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/optimizing-ubuntu-bat... If that doesn't help, I'd recommend reviewing some of the resources: * Framework Forum Linux battery life tuning thread (300+ messages) https://community.frame.work/t/guide-linux-battery-life-tuni... * anarcat's Framework Battery…

So I have to read forums threads with 300+ messages in order to maybe improve the battery life. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. I'll just buy a macbook. 2-3 hours battery lifetime in 2023 is a sad sad joke. I'm sorry, but if this is the best this framework laptop company can come up with...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#224

Post by Dylan16807 »

smoldesu wrote: post #215
Dylan16807 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never had high suicide rates so no.

In 2010, over 10 workers threw themselves from the building to their death. I guess that's not high enough for you?

That's not a useful rate until you factor in population.

"High suicide rate" is a relative term, and does not describe foxconn.

Specifically, the baseline China rate is either 100 or 220 per million per year depending on source. Foxconn had about 14 suicides that year out of about a million workers (or about half a million at the relevant factories? I'm not exactly sure.) That's an impressively low rate. And for reference the US rate is about 100-140 per million per year.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#225

Post by acyou »

nightski wrote: post #163
acyou wrote: post #147

Me and many of my friends all have zombie Frankenstein desktops that perfectly illustrate why the Framework laptop both does and doesn't make sense. I can understand why people with money to burn might not understand the limitations of trying to make a modular architecture work over the long term. Back in the day, dropping in an SSD represented a massive, relatively inexpensive upgrade. But, a desktop has cross-compa…

For a second there I thought I was reading boomer news instead of hacker news. I kid, but honestly there are plenty of us that still upgrade our systems piecemeal. I'm always buying new parts. Partly because I like having the latest stuff, but also because I love handing down parts to my family members which end up being huge upgrades for them.

My desktop is 11 years old this year. I added a network card when the port on the motherboard broke and switched OS when the OS became no longer supportable. Audio output is no longer possible without also adding a sound card, given the audio ports are all fried. Memory and CPU aren't meaningfully upgradable without wholesale motherboard replacement. That's not happening piecemeal. If you have experienced these sorts of issues, you'll understand the challenges with using and maintaining hardware over the longer term. Piecemeal upgrade ceases to be a meaningful option on that time scale. It's not cost effective, and at some point you just need a new machine. Does that make sense?

If anything, I would think using something for as long as possible instead of buying and generating large amounts of e-waste puts me more in the Greatest Generation category. Otherwise, I'm sure I would love to have the latest and greatest all the time too, but on a stats basis, also not being able to afford it puts me less in the boomer category, and more in the younger generation category, no?

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#226

Post by smoldesu »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #224
smoldesu wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2010, over 10 workers threw themselves from the building to their death. I guess that's not high enough for you?

That's not a useful rate until you factor in population. "High suicide rate" is a relative term, and does not describe foxconn. Specifically, the baseline China rate is either 100 or 220 per million per year depending on source. Foxconn had about 14 suicides that year out of about a million workers (or about half a million at the relevant factories? I'm not exactly sure.) That's an impressively low rate. And for refe…

Again, we're talking about a factory that beats its workers[0], faces them down in riots[1], hasn't paid wages on multiple occasions[2], negotiates against mass-worker suicide pacts[3], forces employees into overtime to fatal extremes[4] and blackmails the families of their workers[5].

Maybe, just maybe, giving authoritarian autonomy to a factory complex full of human workers is not a good idea.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20101009065851/http://shanghaiis...

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-09-26/foxconn-w...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/mar/29/apple-fox..., https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/24/business/foxconn-offer-protes...

[3] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/900698...

[4] https://archive.is/gT0dZ

[5] https://www.reuters.com/article/china-foxconn-trial/family-o...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#227

Post by zonkerdonker »

liminalsunset wrote: post #123
zonkerdonker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thixomolding is an incredible process, I'm glad it's becoming more utilized. It really is the best for lightweight, strong, and super thin parts like laptop chassis. About 10 years ago I worked for a medical device company and we used thixo parts for a portable ultrasound system (think chunky laptop form factor). In my first few weeks, I had a proto part that needed a rework, so I chucked the thixomolded part into th…

I'm wondering what the properties of thixomolding parts are like compared to casting compared to having the part machined out of a solid piece. One thing I personally noticed with these types of "cast-looking" parts is that they tend to fail in a brittle way and there's really not much ductility. I've seen many notebooks with Mg alloy casings that shatter when dropped, and I've always preferred the Apple unibody mach…

Mag itself is not very ductile, and more prone to fractures than most AL alloys, with the tradeoff being overall higher yield strength. Depending on the magnesium alloy used for thixo, this can be mitigated somewhat, but you are correct in that almost every "casting" process will give you a less ductile part than the same alloy machined from a solid billet. So much of a metal's material properties come from it's crystalline structure, and how it's melted, formed, and tempered. Thixo tries to get the best of both worlds by using a slurry that is both a solid (containing the proper microstructures for desired material properties) and liquid to ease the injection molding.

Machining from a billet of material guarantees consistent crystal structure, and is usually the go to when strength/appearance is a larger consideration than cost or weight. Billets can be formed very precisely and consistently, without consideration of the final product

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#228

Post by lhl »

the_overseer wrote: post #223
lhl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you haven't seen, in April, Framework published an official Optimizing Ubuntu Battery Life guide that is quite useful: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/optimizing-ubuntu-bat... If that doesn't help, I'd recommend reviewing some of the resources: * Framework Forum Linux battery life tuning thread (300+ messages) https://community.frame.work/t/guide-linux-battery-life-tuni... * anarcat's Framework Battery…

So I have to read forums threads with 300+ messages in order to maybe improve the battery life. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. I'll just buy a macbook. 2-3 hours battery lifetime in 2023 is a sad sad joke. I'm sorry, but if this is the best this framework laptop company can come up with...

The 13th-gen Framework gets just under 12h on Windows 11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuw-YpbFkkM - for Linux, battery life will be up to how your distro does power management. The Ubuntu guide I linked has a read time of 7 minutes. If a Macbook suits your needs, you should buy that, but I don't think the bad faith characterizations you've made are very helpful to anyone.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#230

Post by Dylan16807 »

smoldesu wrote: post #226
Dylan16807 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a useful rate until you factor in population. "High suicide rate" is a relative term, and does not describe foxconn. Specifically, the baseline China rate is either 100 or 220 per million per year depending on source. Foxconn had about 14 suicides that year out of about a million workers (or about half a million at the relevant factories? I'm not exactly sure.) That's an impressively low rate. And for refe…

Again, we're talking about a factory that beats its workers[0], faces them down in riots[1], hasn't paid wages on multiple occasions[2], negotiates against mass-worker suicide pacts[3], forces employees into overtime to fatal extremes[4] and blackmails the families of their workers[5]. Maybe, just maybe , giving authoritarian autonomy to a factory complex full of human workers is not a good idea. [0] https://web.arch…

Cool I didn't say anything about whether they are good or should have autonomy, I said the suicide rate wasn't high.
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