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FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

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Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#221

Post by scrum-treats »

chang1 wrote: post #213
scrum-treats wrote: post #114

As someone who managed to successfully cancel Prime, and then tried to purchase an item on amazon.com, it took me over a minute to figure out how to not accidentally sign up for Prime membership when trying to checkout. There was only one place I could click that would allow me to advance to the next screen (simple text), the text was super small placed below a giant image, and my cursor didn't change to indicate tha…

Funny, I just encountered the same experience. I cancelled Prime after 12 continuous years of subscribing. I placed my first Amazon order a few days ago sans-Prime and was amazed at the blatant dark patterns put in place to get me to sign up again. When I finally got to the checkout page, I had to manually change the shipping for each item from $5.99 standard shipping to free shipping (because I hit the $25 threshold…

> "When I finally got to the checkout page, I had to manually change the shipping for each item from $5.99 standard shipping to free shipping (because I hit the $25 threshold)."

Exactly this: https://imgur.com/a/Xi4ZO3i.

Notice how I am being told that I'm "saving $5.99 if I enroll in Prime", and the default selection is the $5.99 delivery option, however I qualify for free shipping. Further, this free shipping option changes location between purchases, making it even more confusing for customers to not be unnecessarily overcharged.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#222

Post by scrum-treats »

JohnFen wrote: post #212
taude wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend amazon, but at least in the US, they have a awesome return policy. It's even easy to just scan and drop-off at UPS/WF, etc...

I hear this, but it's hard for me to believe. I was a customer (in the US) for over 10 years, spending several thousands of dollars without an issue, but then -- on two different instances -- I needed their awesome return policy. In both cases, they completely stiffed me. That was the final straw that made me stop using Amazon.

This is the new norm.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#223

Post by version_five »

taeric wrote: post #140
93po wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly not any more annoying than the shit groceries store do all the time, in my opinion.

That said, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the practices. :(

When Amazon was really getting going (say 2015?) I hardly ever went to physical stores and was so happy to have a better alternative. Now everything sucks.

Very similar to uber, it was such a breath of fresh air compared to taxis, now it's worse than them.

These "disruptors" that just buy their market position suck.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#224

Post by CatWChainsaw »

from wrote: post #154

Seems they're also mad about Amazon delaying discovery and (allegedly) not giving them everything. Why don't companies just use Signal/some enterprise equivalent with auto deleting messages so by the time the investigation starts there is nothing to discover?

1: Why encourage that? Do you want a world where this happens so we're just stuck with Amazon's shitty practices indefinitely?

2: I'm pretty sure financial operations have hard rules against this behavior that could be ported here.

3: Isn't Google in a kerfuffle for almost exactly this?

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#225

Post by autoexec »

JohnFen wrote: post #211
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel for the designers. Whenever I see horrible UX from big tech it creeps into my mind that the people making it are some of the highest paid in the world and these companies are some of the richest in the world. It's either intentional or we are all suckers.

I agree. There's no reason to feel bad for such employees. They've chosen to work where they work, and I assume that they're happy with that choice.

I've heard that Amazon is a horrible place to work. Execs crying at their desks, and delivery drivers and warehouse workers being forced to piss in bottles or wear diapers in order to keep their jobs. I don't imagine that coders have it that much better. Layoffs at amazon are in the news all the time. There have been reports of 150% annual turnover with the average employee leaving shortly after 6 months. Employees have said they use stack ranking and cull many of those who do stay. I expect a lot of amazon employees are very far from happy with where they are. Some probably have skills that can get them better jobs, but I'll bet it's harder for the guys doing front end web design who are ordered to implement dark patterns in an effort to trick amazon users into signing up for things they don't want.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#226

Post by scrum-treats »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #158
scrum-treats wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say, new "lows" are in store for Amazon. Amazon is now requiring customers to file police reports in order to have any chance at refunds now. Customer Service spews tons of lies, customers half-heartedly believe in good faith, and then get screwed. Customers then take to social media forums such as Reddit to request help and to vent. Instead they are met with Amazon employees who gaslight them further. Again,…

> Amazon is now requiring customers to file police reports in order to have any chance at refunds now. This was the case 4 years ago. I don't think it's new.

Oh, looks like Amazon's mods haven't set the r/amazonprime subreddit back to public (https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditMonitor/comments/14cpe0j/r...).

Nevertheless, let me find a few examples.

16-Feb-2023: "Amazon making me file a police report after they delivered my neighbors package to my home."[1]

17-Feb-2023: "Delivery Issues"[2]

14-Feb-2023: "My item was marked as “delivered” but isn’t actually here, contacted Amazon and they’re asking for a police report"[3]

25-Jan-2023: "Amazon wants me to file a Police Report."[4]

24-Jan-2023: "Amazon is refusing to refund me for a missing item even after a police report. Has anyone else dealt with this and found a work around?"[5]

[1]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/1147wmo/amazon...

Title says it all. This is straight up BS.

*Mon* - Delivery Day: Package Delivered, not my package it’s my neighbors package so we walk it across the street. I chat with Amazon and let them know they delivered my neighbors package but listed it as mine. I am told search around my house and check my mailbox… you must wait till the following day after 6pm before you can contact us again.

*Tues* - Contact them and this is where things should have been easy and I should have just asked for a refund. They ask do you want a refund or new item and I say I just want the item I ordered please. I am told in the next couple days wait for an email with the replacement order..

*Today/Thur* - I chat with them and say I still haven’t received an email and I am immediately greeted with [this](https://i.imgur.com/3m0W4hV.jpg). WTH I have never had an issue before what the hell is going on. I tried to give them my neighbors tracking ID on his package to say that’s the package they delivered as “mine”.

Now I have filed a police report, got my credit card company involved and am waiting for answers. I cannot believe this, they are making it seem as if I CAUSED THIS TO HAPPEN.

Needless to say I’m not happy. Just venting I’ve never been in this position before and this really ruins my experience going forward.

[2]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/114korw/delive...

[3]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/112ovsg/my_ite...

I came home from work on the 11th having seen my parcel as being marked as being “behind the wheelie bin”. No photo attached though. As I went round the back to get it, I noticed that there wasn’t any obvious parcel, I looked around there and back round the front of my house only to find there was no package. I spoke to my neighbours and my housemates to see if they’d seen anyone delivering from Amazon during the day, to which both parties said they hadn’t even seen a van.

I attempted to report this to amazon that day, and was told to wait until Tuesday 14th. I waited and came back to report it then, only to be told that there’s nothing to be done and that I must file a police report if I wish to get my money back.

So I call the non-emergency line (101) and explain to them what’s happened. I’m told in no uncertain terms that a non-received parcel is NOT a police matter and for the amount of the items (1 item) missing (~£50), it’s too small for them to file a report anyway. I explained to Amazon that I don’t even know if it’s stolen so how can I report it as such and am told that until the item is physically in my possession, it remains the property of Amazon and if they believe it’s been stolen then you need to file the report. The police told me it’s more of a civil matter and my best chance would be letting my bank sort this as a dispute.

Until I receive the parcel, it can't be stolen from me, and seeing as I don’t have it, how can it have been stolen from me. Amazon have a sales contract to deliver the items I ordered to me. How is this not their issue to solve?

Any suggestions?

[4]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/10kttvx/amazon...

So i had ordered a couple of things off of amazon but when i received it i had only gotten one of my packages. I contacted customer support to ask for a refund or something and they told me i need to file a police report first because i guess i had already asked for a refund for a package that never showed up a while back. Never had this happen before, so do i just go and file a report and they'll refund me? Has anybody been through this before?

[5]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/10kcjan/amazon...

I bought an IPhone 11 and case from Amazon (sold and shipped by them). Once the package arrived it only had the case/screen protector and no Phone. Support told me to wait a few days then they would help with a refund…but instead they told me the weight on the package was correct so they can’t do anything until I filed a police report.

So I go ahead file a police report, send Amazon the report and number of my local police and they’re still refusing to refund me. Claiming there isn’t enough proof of investigation. I just don’t know what to do and I’d rather not charge back because ik amazon has a habit of closing down accounts after that.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#227

Post by scrum-treats »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #65

For anyone that works on something like this, either at Amazon or elsewhere, I'm genuinely curious how the meetings/discussions around building a purposefully terrible UI go. I assume everyone knows what's going on (i.e. making it difficult to cancel); does anyone ever speak up? Do people just go along with it?

If you speak up you receive "the formula": psychological abuse, placed on PIP, and fired via some perceived loophole. It's bad. And it's gotten considerably worse in 2021-2023.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#228

Post by scrum-treats »

JohnFen wrote: post #79
temp_account_11 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking up is a career limiting move in the short term. In the long term you have survivorship bias. The people that speak up tend to not be there for long. Not directly because they're fired, but indirectly because they get frustrated. Even if it's designed correctly initially, the areas has a permanent bull-eyes for someone's promo packet to go and optimize.

> Speaking up is a career limiting move in the short term. What do you mean by "career limiting"? Just at the company in question, perhaps, but speaking up like that should be considered a good thing. If it's not, why would you want to continue working there?

Other employers call to learn how your previous employment was at Amazon, and Amazon talks mad trash about you and makes up whatever they want is basically the deal. Like a cult, and you are ostracized from that cult.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#229

Post by JohnFen »

autoexec wrote: post #225
JohnFen wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. There's no reason to feel bad for such employees. They've chosen to work where they work, and I assume that they're happy with that choice.

I've heard that Amazon is a horrible place to work. Execs crying at their desks, and delivery drivers and warehouse workers being forced to piss in bottles or wear diapers in order to keep their jobs. I don't imagine that coders have it that much better. Layoffs at amazon are in the news all the time. There have been reports of 150% annual turnover with the average employee leaving shortly after 6 months. Employees h…

By "happy", I mean that they're choosing to continue working where they work. They're getting a benefit from it. Otherwise, they would make a different choice.

If they continue to work at a place that makes them miserable for whatever reason (fear of loss of income, status, change, whatever), then I do have sympathy for their emotional problem. But in the end, they can choose to have a different situation.

Re: FTC sues Amazon over ‘deceptive’ Prime sign-up and cancellation process

#230

Post by scrum-treats »

taude wrote: post #175
scrum-treats wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video streaming is broken. 4K is a lie, UI and UX is clumsy and uninviting at best. There's predatory sign-ups for supplemental packages that customers have no idea about until they've been charged (sometimes for more than a year). Customer Service then tries to only refund for 1-6 months, unless the customer hires a lawyer. TV and Movie Titles that were available for free one week suddenly disappear (without warning…

I enjoy my prime video. Not really sure what the complications are for you. Even the non-techies in the house can easily click into it from the app on our TV.

Personally, I have a fairly long list of issues with Prime Video, from cosmetic to deep-seeded internals. Same with Amazon Music. It could be so much better, sooo much better.
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