The comparison of a fully discharged battery to the negligence of running a car with no or bad oil is disingenuous and likely manipulative. One is a passive issue of forgetting or not knowing a car requires charging when _not operating_, the other is an active negligence of operating a car that is unfit to run. I can neglect a car in storage for decades and getting it started will not require more than the cost of the car. At best it will require a tune-up and a full tank of gas.
Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
221–230 of 249 posts
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the second time[1] you have said precisely the same thing in response to a comment of mine in this thread. I don't care about whatever agenda you're trying to push; stop being so belligerent in your attempts to get me to say something completely orthogonal to my point. [1] The other: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3631295
So you agree the blogger is telling the truth and the PR release from tesla is a lie, correct?
Times like this I wish I could downvote people who reply to me.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is almost PR mastery. PR mastery would be saying that the blogger is correct before listing the facts about how insanely long you have to leave the car unplugged for the battery to become inoperable, and detailing what steps Tesla is taking to make this less of an issue (i.e. making it more prominent in their manuals, working on "deeper" sleep, etc.) As it stands, this makes me think that Tesla likes to play wit…
Saying "the blogger is correct" at the top of the post would cause a significant portion of the readers to close the tab and never think about buying a Tesla again. To me that's a PR fail. Also, nowhere in the post do they mention GPS--only that the car (optionally) phones home its charge level. As best I can make out that's an unfounded rumor based on a single incident.
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Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#224The original blogger and all the naysayers were completely insane to think this was some sort of design oversight and that the Model S would not include significant improvements.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
30 watt drain. You will need 720 watt hours per day which will be around a square meter of solar cells. Won't work in the parking garage, snow, or Seattle. Just don't leave your tesla at the airport of 12 weeks. That's expensive all by itself.
Do you need the full 30W to keep the battery alive, or is that for the whole electrical system on standby?
I suspect it is dominated by self discharge. By that is just guessing at the load.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#226Deposition line of questioning suggested after reading this piece: Q. Is it true that the battery has catastrophic failure when it drains to zero and is left in that state for a sustained period? A. The company has built in countless safeguards to ensure that the battery never drains to zero. Q. That is not what I asked. Please answer the question. A. It is an unfounded rumor that many owners have incurred such a cat…
> Is it true that the battery has catastrophic failure when it drains to zero and is left in that state for a sustained period?
This question is answered multiple times in the owner's manual and buyer contract (where buyer is required to initial after reading). I'm not sure why it would need to come up in a depo.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#227This is PR mastery. Nowhere in the release does Tesla refute that owners have "bricked" their batteries. Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge. All they say is that it would take a period of weeks for a Tesla roadster to reach 0% charge, and that the Model S has battery disconnect technology that can extend this to several months. The…
IMO, this was horrible, horrible PR. They basically confirmed all allegations, while still coming out as snotty jerks (talking about "unfounded rumors"?!). Linking the ad-hominem attack was just low. They are in a difficult situation, as the problem is real, and difficult to address. In fact they are clearly doing a lot trying to address it, which is to their credit -- now if instead of downplaying it, they presented…
Totally agree. Good PR lets the bad news out all at once, and the good news out in drips.
Day 1:
We are very sorry that a handful of our thousands of users has had battery problems. It is true that a battery can be irreversibly damaged by a "deep discharge". It has not been covered by our bumper-to-bumper warrantee, as it is considered to be a misuse. This is only possible if a car is not being used on a regular basis, and provided our cars are left with a 50% charge they can last for months without a problem. Please do not leave your Tesla with a low charge if you will be away for a long period of time. This should not be a problem for the vast majority of our customers, but some may need to take special precautions, if they will not be driving their car for a long period of time.
Day 2:
Compare old Tesla to new Tesla. Note how long the new Tesla can last on 50%. Note that all cars have problems (oil, radiators, fan belts); and that it takes time for the new rules to sink in. Note that only a small handful of customers have been bitten, despite it being a completely new system. Note how many people have their engines get cooked, even after 100 years of oil burning cars. Note that electricity is fundamentally simpler, and easier to maintain, and that will only get better with more design work, and as people become accustomed to it.
Then wait a while, and find (or make) some good news. Free replacements for the handful of effected customers?
The more time people spend reading and arguing over the fine points of PR spin, the more time your name is dragged through the mud. Get it over with quickly.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#228This is PR mastery. Nowhere in the release does Tesla refute that owners have "bricked" their batteries. Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge. All they say is that it would take a period of weeks for a Tesla roadster to reach 0% charge, and that the Model S has battery disconnect technology that can extend this to several months. The…
> Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge.
I happen to have first-hand experience with a gas-powered Porsche that was left parked for so long (years), with no starts, that the engine eventually became effectively "bricked", and had to be written off. And I had to fork out 1000's of dollars on engine repair (attempts) to even reach the point of deciding it had to be written off. This is with a gas-powered engine, a traditional car. So there is precedent where a car owner can misuse and/or fail to maintain the vehicle properly per the manufacturer's guidelines, and it becomes bricked. This is not a new kind of problem introduced by Tesla.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. You buy a car that only needs maintenance once a year, but you have to plug it in at least once every few weeks. They are willing to go well above and beyond what most would expect in order to remind you of that. I think that's a pretty good deal. Responsible owners do not let the battery charge reach zero. The consequences are serious enough that owners with unusual usage patterns that make this difficul…
I screwed up once and my car ran out of gas. Had to walk 3 miles. Didn't cost $40,000 to fix.
And yet in your "$40k to fix" scenario you were wealthy enough to be able to afford a $100k+ exotic electric sports car, in the first place.
If you buy and wear a $20k watch, and you irresponsibly destroy it or lose it, it'll probably cost you $20k to replace it. And the obvious lesson for people considering buying $20k watches is you shouldn't buy one if you couldn't afford to lose it or pay to replace it. "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it."
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Forget to turn off the stove before you leave for holiday? Your house might burn down. This is the best example I've read so far. If you own expensive stuff, you have to be careful. That's life. If you're not careful, don't buy a $100,000 electric car. Buy a $750 used pickup truck or something. That way, if you break it, you'll be able to afford the replacement.
No, if you pay good money for something, you expect the product has good feature to pamper its user. It is more true with a car where if you pay good money for a car, the car should take care of you more than the other way around. If not, it is not worth the money to buy in the first place. Your way of reasoning is pretty much the same as when iPhone 4 first came out. You pay good money for something that shatters ea…
This problem is due to the laws of physics rather than bad product design, however. There is no battery technology that would scale to a car and not self-discharge. Yes, the thing discharges to keep some systems online, but even if it didn't, the battery would still brick itself over time.
The iPhone is a mass market product with millions of users. Tesla's cars are experimental products for early adopters, with a few thousand users. Completely different situations.