I always find the discrepancy between drugs and chemicals odd. Drugs require years of research to prove that they are safe, whereas chemicals can seemingly be put into the environment as long as they are not proven to cause harm, and even then in some cases, despite the effects of chemicals being released into the environment potentially causing very bad effects.
3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
221–230 of 260 posts
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Humans discover that the cool and useful thing is toxic as fuck, but only after years go by. It takes years for the awareness of the toxicity to become widespread enough for everyone to concur it’s a problem. There's no reason for there to be years between discovery and action. It doesn't matter how quickly the discovery ripples through lay society. Once it's known that something is harming and/or killing people, i…
Yeah, should . But what if there are no alternatives? What if the alternatives are worse? What if the alternatives are the kind of thing that could possibly be worse but we don’t have enough experience with them yet to know that they are worse? Often the known bad thing is better than the thing you don’t know to be bad yet.
Then we don't have that product until it can be safely created. It's extremely dangerous to treat innovation as irreversible
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would you suggest seasoning and maintaining cast iron?
Literally just cook with it. The main thing with everything except for teflon pans is you need to bring them up to temp before cooking, and you need to use some fat of some kind (olive oil, butter, whatever). The oil itself will provide the "non stick" until it's seasoned, and it'll also do the seasoning. You can waste a bunch of time doing seasoning as a separate step (light coating of oil, bring up to smoke point,…
> Literally just cook with it.
Lmao. Hapless beginner follows your advice, decides to scramble some eggs on day 1 with his badly-factory-seasoned Lodge pan. Egg glue now encrusts his shiny new pan. What do? Wash with soap? BAD NOOB - that's bad for the seasoning. Scrape it off with steel wool? BAD NOOB - that's even worse for the seasoning.
(If you do this, fellow noob, I think oil + a scrubber sponge got me out of the predicament)
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's kind of funny that heating up the oil to the point of smoking is considered a healthy alternative to teflon coated pans. When oil is heated up to the point of smoking it produces carcinogenic compounds.
Comparing the misc acrylamide and other byproducts of seasoning a cast iron skillet to the PFAS and other byproducts of teflon production is nonsense. Yes, complex hydrocarbons are not good for you, but PFOAs and their ilk are really really really bad for you and the environment. It's like comparing spent nuclear rods with brazil nuts. Yes, both are radioactive, but there is zero equivalence.
If you don't scratch the surface the teflon coating is at least as safe as the cast iron.
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's definite leaching of plastic compounds into food, which gets exacerbated when heated. My concern is the number of unknown unknowns. BPA became a big part of the consciousness a few years ago, and now it's PFAs, but what else? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/18/are-plastic-... My general view is that glass is super-durable, microwave-safe (I would never microwave Tupperware), and the cost tradeoff…
> There's definite leaching of plastic compounds into food, which gets exacerbated when heated. My concern is the number of unknown unknowns. BPA became a big part of the consciousness a few years ago, and now it's PFAs, but what else? PFAS and BPA are not used for (multi-use) food containers I think. Don't get me wrong! Avoiding throwaway packaging, where possible, absolutely makes sense. I specifically mean to find…
> Glass breaks faster than plastic containers (usually)
The plastic lids always break way more quickly than the glass containers IME. Can't remember the last time I broke a glass one, actually. Plus, they actually stay in good condition. An abused plastic container will cloud, warp, gouge, and release god knows what into your food the whole time.
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#226The chemicals in question are of type PFAS and believe it or not, they're still legal to use today, though they're being phased out and banned in a few years. The problem is 3M scientists have know toxicity to human and have withheld the information to the public and regulators. Since 1970s.
Real killer is they already settled similar case in Minnesota.
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#227Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#228So what, they'll pay a few million (even few billion) fine, and go back to doing it anyways. Having grown up as part of the "Maryvale Cancer Cluster" in Arizona in the 70's with DuPont dumping fluorine and other bad things into the well water and giving most of my family leukemia, cancer, and who knows what else. Class action ensued, DuPont lawyers fought it for 30 years, end of the day my dad got a check for $200 do…
I'm always amazed that in cases like this nobody gets crazy and try to get justice themselves. There are so many guns in the US, and we hear about rogue snipers and school shooters, but never about one guy that decided a CEO should pay for his bad deeds in blood. Maybe it shows that the average human being is quite stable and peaceful?
To whoever flagged this: grow a spine. The poster is making an observation - and an interesting one. Not even a call to action. Instead of plugging your ears and screaming lalalala, why don't you come up with an equally interesting response to this question that has apparently made you so uncomfortable?
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#229In the future there will be a $200 trillion dollar lawsuit against tire manufacturers and brake disc manufacturers once people learn about those
Those are perfectly safe. People rolling those wheels and breaking is what's causing all the harm.
Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally just cook with it. The main thing with everything except for teflon pans is you need to bring them up to temp before cooking, and you need to use some fat of some kind (olive oil, butter, whatever). The oil itself will provide the "non stick" until it's seasoned, and it'll also do the seasoning. You can waste a bunch of time doing seasoning as a separate step (light coating of oil, bring up to smoke point,…
> Literally just cook with it. Lmao. Hapless beginner follows your advice, decides to scramble some eggs on day 1 with his badly-factory-seasoned Lodge pan. Egg glue now encrusts his shiny new pan. What do? Wash with soap? BAD NOOB - that's bad for the seasoning. Scrape it off with steel wool? BAD NOOB - that's even worse for the seasoning. (If you do this, fellow noob, I think oil + a scrubber sponge got me out of t…
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