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India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

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Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#221

Post by godelski »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #168
anticodon wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but filthy foreigners corrupted Mother India. Isn't this part actually true, because Britain pillaged India for centuries?

I don’t recall any accounts of the British finding nuclear power when they arrived though…

Or the British suspiciously inventing nuclear weapons/power relatively quickly after the occupation of India. Or even when they began trading. Nor the Greeks. But maybe the British were just playing the long con. Well played British... well played. Waiting a hundred years, giving the technology to the Americans, and letting Germany bomb your cities and almost occupy your country. Very crafty.

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#223

Post by User23 »

29athrowaway wrote: post #191
mythrwy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution is not a fact. It's a theory. This is not to say evolution doesn't occur, of course it does, and most rational people without an overzealous religious bent recognize this. It's an obvious explanation and it fits, it predicts successfully and it explains satisfactorily. But it's important to differentiate between a fact and a theory. A fact is simple observable phenomena without explanation. An apple fell to…

Use whatever terminology you prefer, however, you cannot ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence around us in the fossil record.

The fossil record isn't particularly good evidence for the theory of evolution by natural selection because of the nature of fossilization. It requires special conditions and the overwhelming majority of creatures never fossilize. It is good evidence that creatures that used to be around aren't anymore though.

Evolutionary biologists tend to be very defensive though. If you say to a particle physicist "hey the standard model isn't that great" he'll say "yep, wish we could do better." If you say to an evolutionary biologist "hey the theory of evolution by natural selection isn't that great" he'll resort to ad hominems. This is probably because the standard model is hard science, whereas evolution by natural selection is more of a best effort conjecture.

And there is a really important distinction to be made. Evolution in the sense of heritable traits being selected for is undeniable fact. Dogs are a thing after all so we've verified the effects of selection in a controlled setting. So when someone critiques the theory of evolution by natural selection it should be understood as part of the process of coming up with a better theory, not "muh anti science."

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#224

Post by 29athrowaway »

User23 wrote: post #223
29athrowaway wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use whatever terminology you prefer, however, you cannot ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence around us in the fossil record.

The fossil record isn't particularly good evidence for the theory of evolution by natural selection because of the nature of fossilization. It requires special conditions and the overwhelming majority of creatures never fossilize. It is good evidence that creatures that used to be around aren't anymore though. Evolutionary biologists tend to be very defensive though. If you say to a particle physicist "hey the standa…

Evolution can be simulated in a computer as a reproducible experiment and I have even done it myself.

Genetic algorithms, evolutionary computing, etc.

So no.

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#225

Post by Bekknqv »

qwytw wrote: post #207
Bekknqv wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're trying to reduce the burden on students. Don't exactly know if evolution violates some Hindu teachings, but a statement was released last month stating that evolution was removed from the grade 10 book because it's present in the grade 12 book- https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhubaneswar/darwins... Similarly, I'm guessing the periodic table was removed from the grade 10 book because it's already pres…

> IMO they probably should've kept a page or two about evolution though How do you even teach biology or natural sciences without dedicated a significant amount if time for evolution (not just a page or two... lol..). Are these subject not taught at all in Indian school? Before 11/12 grade (assuming the students picks them)? What do they focus on instead?

> How do you even teach biology or natural sciences without dedicated a significant amount if time for evolution (not just a page or two... lol..)

I'm no biologist or teacher, but I don't feel like you need to jump into evolution to understand how everyday things like digestion or photosynthesis occur.

There are plenty of introductory articles on the internet that could fit in a page or two. Interested students could go home and look it up. I meant it as a means to provoke curiosity and to be made aware of.

Certain pages on the textbooks here have these boxes with some trivia about scientists/inventions. I remember reading those boxes in school and then coming home and looking things up to learn a bit more. You aren't graded on them, but they're interesting to read.

> Are these subject not taught at all in Indian school? Before 11/12 grade (assuming the students picks them)?

You don't get to pick anything other than your language until grade 10. Biology, physics and chemistry are compulsory until grade 10.

If a student picks biology after grade 10, they will be taught evolution in more detail.

> What do they focus on instead?

It starts around 6th grade. Begins with humans and plants, their anatomy, nutrition, reproduction, everyday activities etc. Then you learn about cells and tissues, hormones and sex-ed, evolution and heredity, AFAIK.

You can check the textbooks/syllabus here- https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#226

Post by SJetKaran »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #90
fractalb wrote: post #46

They actually cut the syllabus for students below class X. It's not a ban or anything. And it's only NCERT's (central board of education) syllabus. Each state has its own education board and syllabus. The headline is not honest.

if each state can just ignore the NCERT curriculum, and if the NCERT curriculum itself is educationally insufficient (not teaching evolution or the periodic table in a school curriculum makes that curriculum a failure), then what is the point of the NCERT curriculum?

So, India has different systems of curriculum, at national level CBSE/NCERT and ICSE, and many states have their own. Each school individually is affiliated to one of the curriculums.

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#227

Post by [deleted] »

29athrowaway wrote: post #191
mythrwy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution is not a fact. It's a theory. This is not to say evolution doesn't occur, of course it does, and most rational people without an overzealous religious bent recognize this. It's an obvious explanation and it fits, it predicts successfully and it explains satisfactorily. But it's important to differentiate between a fact and a theory. A fact is simple observable phenomena without explanation. An apple fell to…

Use whatever terminology you prefer, however, you cannot ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence around us in the fossil record.

[deleted]

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#228

Post by mythrwy »

29athrowaway wrote: post #191
mythrwy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution is not a fact. It's a theory. This is not to say evolution doesn't occur, of course it does, and most rational people without an overzealous religious bent recognize this. It's an obvious explanation and it fits, it predicts successfully and it explains satisfactorily. But it's important to differentiate between a fact and a theory. A fact is simple observable phenomena without explanation. An apple fell to…

Use whatever terminology you prefer, however, you cannot ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence around us in the fossil record.

This is not "what terminology I prefer"

It's what science is about and how it defines things!

Apparently some people are looking at the first sentence and assuming "Evolution Denier!" and this is not the case at all. This is simply an argument for good science and correct terminology when talking about scientific principals!

Gravity, and Evolution are theories. That is what they are. They are not facts (scientifically speaking). A fact is something else.

This has no relevance to evolution being best fit explanation for biological diversity (which, just to be clear, I agree with 100%) or gravity being best fit explanation for why things fall down at a consistent rate.

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#229

Post by User23 »

29athrowaway wrote: post #224
User23 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fossil record isn't particularly good evidence for the theory of evolution by natural selection because of the nature of fossilization. It requires special conditions and the overwhelming majority of creatures never fossilize. It is good evidence that creatures that used to be around aren't anymore though. Evolutionary biologists tend to be very defensive though. If you say to a particle physicist "hey the standa…

Evolution can be simulated in a computer as a reproducible experiment and I have even done it myself. Genetic algorithms, evolutionary computing, etc. So no.

Demons and space marines can be simulated on a computer too. That’s not evidence for their existence.

So no.

Also, show me the code and I’ll show you that you’re simplifying so grossly it has no bearing on reality.

Re: India cuts periodic table and evolution from school textbooks

#230

Post by 29athrowaway »

User23 wrote: post #229
29athrowaway wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution can be simulated in a computer as a reproducible experiment and I have even done it myself. Genetic algorithms, evolutionary computing, etc. So no.

Demons and space marines can be simulated on a computer too. That’s not evidence for their existence. So no. Also, show me the code and I’ll show you that you’re simplifying so grossly it has no bearing on reality.

If you create a simulated environment that results in selection, mutation and crossover, and a measure of fitness, even if not implicit, and then add a few cells, let it run for millions of iterations and then end up with space marines, that would be more akin to what you claim "has no bearing on reality".
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