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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#221

Post by wombatpm »

falcolas wrote: post #125
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a state even have a right to do something like this? Somehow, I feel like if California tried to ban Fox News - it would not fly. This doesn't seem that different, though I personally find it amusing that it's coming from a conservative state. I do agree TikTok is toxic trash - but I'd say the same about Fox News - and it just doesn't seem like something a state has the ability to ban.

As I understand it, no. Montana would have to be effectively regulating interstate trade since neither Apple nor Google have offices here. Plus, the whole "negotiate commerce and treaties with foreign entities" thing.

So can apple turn off all iphones in Montana in retaliation. Bet it would be easier/cheaper to cut off those customers than implement any changes. Android phone makes could follow suit

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#222

Post by drekk »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #185
JohnFen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That such bans don't include domestic companies spying on people and providing that data to domestic entities says everything about how bankrupt this whole thing is.

That the US is illegally spying on its own citizens is bad, but not as bad as allowing an explicitly hostile, autocratic foreign power to turn a massive propaganda and surveillance platform on US citizens. The US has many problems, but I'd still rather live in its admittedly somewhat rough approximation to transparent liberal democracy than under a completely and explicitly unaccountable regime like the Chinese Commu…

The US has the grasp and reach to punish me based on things about my privately generated data. The CCP has the grasp but not the reach. They are entirely different threat models. Neither one is excusable, but the US spying on me is a lot more immediately applicable.

Also I find it funny to the point of parody that China is the country under an unaccountable regime when they are signatories to the Hague System. The United States and Russian Federation are not, and the US goes so far as to have an affectionately nicknamed "Hague invasion clause".

In my lifetime the US has invaded several countries and replaced their democracies with friendlier governments. I'm not sure how we get to stand on any moral high horse about "liberal values". I'm not sure how leaving Libya with open-air slave markets is reconciled under said values.

I hope one day people can look at their own governments more critically than foreign ones, not least because our own government is at least on paper allowed to exist via consent of the governed.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#223

Post by falcolas »

JohnFen wrote: post #200
quest88 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please be clear what you're talking about. There's a difference between "service providing targeted advertising based off what it knows about you" and "service that sells data it has collected about you". The former wouldn't sell that data, because it's their most valuable asset.

Yes, those two things are different, but I don't think that difference really matters that much.

I agree, this is a distinction without a difference, especially if your aim is to prevent influencing discussion and policies.

An ad targeted at "young democrats" and sending targeted emails to "young democrats" has the same effect (one could argue that the ad would be more effective since it's less easily filtered out)

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#224

Post by mortify »

dkarl wrote: post #152
JohnFen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That such bans don't include domestic companies spying on people and providing that data to domestic entities says everything about how bankrupt this whole thing is.

Mainstream conservatives/Republicans swung hard in the direction of supporting domestic spying and surveillance in the early 2000s and have never swung back. They hate the government but (with some justification) assume that law enforcement is on their side.

It would be nice if the Democrats would tear this down, but they seem happy having the opportunity to spy domestically now that it's in place.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#225

Post by bmarquez »

jameshart wrote: post #218
asynchronous wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah nothing like banning people from going to restaurants without a state issued vaccine pass (we didn’t forget)

I got my vaccine certificate from CVS. the state had very little to do with it.

The State of California automatically issued digital vaccine certificates. Basically QR codes that could be read by a business with the appropriate hardware.

https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#226

Post by AlexCoventry »

drekk wrote: post #222
AlexCoventry wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the US is illegally spying on its own citizens is bad, but not as bad as allowing an explicitly hostile, autocratic foreign power to turn a massive propaganda and surveillance platform on US citizens. The US has many problems, but I'd still rather live in its admittedly somewhat rough approximation to transparent liberal democracy than under a completely and explicitly unaccountable regime like the Chinese Commu…

The US has the grasp and reach to punish me based on things about my privately generated data. The CCP has the grasp but not the reach. They are entirely different threat models. Neither one is excusable, but the US spying on me is a lot more immediately applicable. Also I find it funny to the point of parody that China is the country under an unaccountable regime when they are signatories to the Hague System. The Un…

I agree that these are all terrible things about the US which need to change, but at least we have the institutional tools to effect that change, if we can muster the political will. Any power the CCP establishes will be far more immutable and hostile to critique or adjustment.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#227

Post by goatlover »

bioemerl wrote: post #201
TrueGeek wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" - sent from my iPhone

They threaten regularly to go to war with us over Taiwan. People before WW1 thought war was impossible thanks to how the economy was so interconnected. Russia invaded Ukraine despite how tied they were to Europe economically. To suggest China can't be an adversary just because we trade is a blunder made many times in history, and it fails, time and time again. Don't fall for it.

Nukes are a reason why China won't go to war with the US, same as Russia. Unfortunately for Ukraine, they gave up their nukes.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#228

Post by bioemerl »

goatlover wrote: post #227
bioemerl wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They threaten regularly to go to war with us over Taiwan. People before WW1 thought war was impossible thanks to how the economy was so interconnected. Russia invaded Ukraine despite how tied they were to Europe economically. To suggest China can't be an adversary just because we trade is a blunder made many times in history, and it fails, time and time again. Don't fall for it.

Nukes are a reason why China won't go to war with the US, same as Russia. Unfortunately for Ukraine, they gave up their nukes.

Taiwan lacks nukes and China is rapidly building out it's nuclear umbrella. I believe they absolutely intend to try to use that same nuclear threat to enable their invasion of Taiwan without American intervention.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#229

Post by woooooo »

bioemerl wrote: post #216
px43 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. People are saying that maybe US politicians shouldn't be blatantly labeling them as an adversary just to score some sinophobic rageporn points with Fox News viewers.

> No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. I think anyone who says they aren't is lying to themselves. This is a far bigger trend than just some fox News viewers. Opposition to China has become bilateral and is very well supported by most in America. You can only spend so long pretending to be a friend while also opposing the United States in basically every possible way until the United States wakes up and…

They're mostly the same country they were 10 years ago. Compare the media coverage then and now -- they didn't change, we just ran out of war on terror and needed a new enemy.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#230

Post by colpabar »

px43 wrote: post #207
bioemerl wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They threaten regularly to go to war with us over Taiwan. People before WW1 thought war was impossible thanks to how the economy was so interconnected. Russia invaded Ukraine despite how tied they were to Europe economically. To suggest China can't be an adversary just because we trade is a blunder made many times in history, and it fails, time and time again. Don't fall for it.

No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. People are saying that maybe US politicians shouldn't be blatantly labeling them as an adversary just to score some sinophobic rageporn points with Fox News viewers.

Don't worry - as soon as the american war machine gets the green light everyone else will become hawkish sinophobes too. Many such cases.
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