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Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

covertactionmagazine.com

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Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#221

Post by nullityrofl »

penneallagricia wrote: post #218
throwrqX wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can search all you want but there is no evidence or proof whatsoever of EU countries spying USA top government officials. Nonsense. https://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squar... https://www.dw.com/en/german-intelligence-spied-on-white-hou...

The first article is just a claim with no evidence provided. The second is based on some yet unreleased documents that Der Spiegel claims to have reviewed years ago. Still no evidence to be found, only claims.

It's a claim made by the head of the agency that did it. If you're not willing to take their word, I think you're being stubborn and obtuse and this will never be a productive discussion.

If you're willing to believe a US whistleblower -- whose evidence you can't personally verify -- you have to be open to believing the _former head of the agency_.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#222

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

GalenErso wrote: post #220
Consultant32452 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I disagree with the idea that we are run by psychopaths.

Don't know where you live, but check what it takes to end up nominated as a candidate in one of the top parties in your country. It's either the wealthy and well connected elites or the unscrupulous psychos that end up lying, cheating and backstabbing their way to the top.

The sane, honest people either get filtered out or end up converted by the toxic corrupt system. It's similar in other government or private organizations where power is at stake.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#223

Post by brnaftr361 »

mandmandam wrote: post #123
somenameforme wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at literally any poll on this issue. Here [1] is one from late 2019 from Pew. 66% of Americans think the risks of government data collection outweigh the benefits, fewer than 25% think they benefit from such behavior. And almost nobody knows what the government is doing with all of this information they're collecting. It's certainly not indifference, it's that our media and democracy aren't really functioning pr…

> these sort of issues where people overwhelmingly feel one way, and the political establishment feels another? Yeah, those are all strangely absent. I feel that Sanders' nomination campaigns epitomized this divide: He spoke for the people. Many more people donated for him than any other candidate, his supporters were diverse and enthusiastic. He was the number one most popular politician in the entire country. Yet m…

Much the same could be said about Ron Paul. I think that's worth a pitch because their policies are diametrically opposed, the results however were staggeringly similar.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#224

Post by notjulianjaynes »

drewcoo wrote: post #145
esrauch wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of sharing it only with trusted established journalists was that their qualified to know what needs redacting. Surely even the documents that primarily concern specifically unconstitutional domestic spying would still have stuff in them that is material to national security and not unconstitutional.

> he point of sharing it only with trusted established journalists was that their qualified to know what needs redacting Really? I assumed it had more to do with Constitutional protections for journalists, so whatever they did publish would stay published. IIRC, the US had already called Assange's journo creds into question by then, so Snowden sought out established outlets.

There is no special credential that makes one a journalist in the eyes of the United States Constitution, nor does the first amendment grant any special protections to journalists that do not otherwise apply to the general population.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#225

Post by throwaway27391 »

klyrs wrote: post #24
ITB wrote: post #4

On the other hand, there are people that look at whistleblowing as a way to propel into fame. They call themselves and whistleblowers when in reality they are just publicly critiquing their company over known facts. They give whistleblowing a bad reputation.

Do you have examples of people who have been enriched by so-called whistleblowing?

[dead]

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#226

Post by dmbche »

jstarfish wrote: post #100
nmqsxc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Greenwald there were millions of pages, largely because everything from parking spaces to nuclear weapons were frivolously marked "top secret" in order to increase the perceived importance of bureaucrats. Snowden gave the pile to the Guardian (Greenwald and another journalist), who decided what to publish, which was a major task because of all the unimportant stuff. How could Snowden have gone through th…

[flagged]

Just to be clear - if you are trying to amass enough proof to bring to the media, but expect to be fired any day now, the logical thing to do is to exfiltrate as much of what could be relevant and sort out the rest after.

Say you exfiltrate not enough and are fired. You're shit out of luck, and there is no way to infiltrate someone else to your position to get the rest out.

I doubt you can honestly see his actions as reckless or revengeful.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#227

Post by hourago »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #169
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

What makes it worse is, whistleblowers are trouble makers often. They are difficult people, at best like Snowden, they lay low. It makes it easier to dismiss them. Why? Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character. To whistleblow against a very powerful organisation, like the NSA, you have to be a pain in the ass. I don't mean that in a bad way. Normal sociable people just…

> whistleblowers are trouble makers often ... Why? Because people who are good and social with the group do not have a contrarian character.

Most "troublemakers", as you call them, that I have known are people deeply moral and worried about their peers and society. I have seen two types, thou. Some have such a strong moral compass that will fight for what is right even knowing that it will have consequences. And the naive ones that think that, as they are morally right, the structures of power will recognize their sins and correct the situation. None of them were anti-social.

But that is just my personal experience.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#228

Post by imwillofficial »

3pt14159 wrote: post #72
realjohng wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. He worked with journalists to try the make the leak safe. Let’s focus on impact- Now everyone is at least aware that digital activities are under surveillance including phone call metadata. We have made that trade off for some security. Thank you Snowden.

And yet, it is not journalists that are privy to classified material, it is lawmakers, military staff, intelligence staff, and their contractors and consultants. What makes a journalist a better place to whistle to than an elected politician on the intelligence committee or any one of a number of other options. My basic position on this is that secret holders never have the full picture, but at least they have the tr…

- I worked for CSIS and currently work for the CIA as an NOC Agent. AKA a spy.

Bro this is Reddit tier lying.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#229

Post by trinsic2 »

paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

This is why I don't operate in these power structures. From 1995 to 2005 I worked for corporations and seeing it was harmful to my well being, I decide to provide computer services directly to the public. Now I set my own rules, and I work very hard to set my own ethical spaces where people are forced to do the right thing if they want to operate in my world. I have found that people want to do the right things, but that they need people around them for encouragement. Treat everyone, even the most hardened criminals like they have it with in them to change and all the need is people to believe in them.

For me, the dead world of the labor force takes on a symbolic meaning. Words are like super powers, the have resonance and meaning. Look at the etymology of words and the source meaning will always give you the correct answer to what you are energetically putting your life force into.

corporation (n.)

> mid-15c., corporacioun, "persons united in a body for some purpose," from such use in Anglo-Latin, from Late Latin corporationem (nominative corporatio) "assumption of a body" (used of the incarnation of Christ),

> noun of action from past-participle stem of Latin corporare "embody, make or fashion into a body," from corpus (genitive corporis) "body, dead body, animal body," also "a whole composed of united parts, a structure, system,community, corporation, political body, a guild" (from PIE root *kwrep- "body, form, appearance").

Corporations are dead things. Start small and make choices that slowly shifts your energy to people and things that actual have living essence like small business and endeavors that benefit the common good. We can't do in every part of our life, but just a slight shift can be like a cascade effect over time.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#230

Post by imwillofficial »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #57
newZWhoDis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re correct, it would be utterly illegal and they are in fact doing it via the five eyes program (FVEY) Essentially what they’ve done is commit treason by colluding with hostile foreign powers to mutually spy on each others citizens, bypassing the pesky constitutional/charter limitations in the process. In the right political climate we could Nuremberg trial 5 levels deep into the organizations responsible, I’m ho…

> You’re correct, it would be utterly illegal and they are in fact doing it via the five eyes program (FVEY) If they are doing it, where's your evidence? You don't have it because otherwise, Klayman would have filed a lawsuit.

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