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We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

mux.com

221–230 of 241 posts

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#221
post #188

It's been said that a growing number of individuals are turning to Telegram to stream pirated soccer matches. These streams often have massive viewership, with all of the streaming costs allegedly covered by Pavel Durov. However, it's worth questioning how sustainable this model is, considering that while Pavel is certainly wealthy, it's unclear if he has any incentive to continue footing the bill for illegal soccer…

Does the video stream goes to telegram servers or are people sending video to each person connected similar to what jitsi does with videocalls?

It goes through Telegram servers. It is similar to stream soccer through a Microsoft Teams call.

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#222
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used their service to run the illegal streams and then didn't pay for it. Or they abused a free trial credits and MUX got a takedown notice, so someone used their service for free and they got a bad rep for it. As a side note, another way to look at this is like email spam relays. Illegal activity utilising public services to deliver content (although in this case those receiving it will actually want the traf…

I’m not making the argument that because it is cheap, or low cost, it is OK. Mux it’s totally right to do what they’re doing. It’s their service. I’m curious in the economics of it. The people who are streaming have economics too, their time is worth something they could be doing something else with it. They are finding the source material, perhaps paying for it, finding a way to upload it, sharing links and distribu…

Exact numbers, I can't easily give, but I will breakdown the process and some of the scale.

Setting aside distribution which is a common problem between illegal and legal streaming. Production for legal streaming costs thousands of dollars per hour just to create the feed. A dozen cameras at the stadium, with camera operators pointing them. Vision directors, audio folk, production folk and a multi-million dollar truck or three to run the production from.

You're talking about fibre links around the world to move the media from the stadium to the transmission facilities. Playout systems to add extra polish to the look and feel (otherwise half-time would look rough), folks doing commentary (either at the stadium or remotely). Further fibre links to the cloud, Encoders, packagers and caches.

Almost every piece of equipment or software, is run in duplicate or triplicate to ensure that it's insanely reliable. There's not one fibre, but four, linking our two transmission data centres to the cloud. People don't expect much from a pirate site, but they'll threaten your life if you break the stream of their favourite sports team.

The pirates subscribe to us for just a normal consumer subscription and then rip off our content. They either use trial accounts or buy some credit on a public cloud under an assumed name. Sometimes they operate from compliant cloud providers who likely know what they're involved in (usually in countries with lax legal enforcement routes). The feeds themselves are usually separate as a business from the websites. The content acquisition is one activity, the hosting of streams is another and the hosting of the linking websites is another. On the black market pirates can get access to the source streams at some level or another and host them on a website. There is a mesh of money changing hands for access to content (sidenote: yes, crypto currency transactions are traceable to an extent).

Most sites are funded by advertising and link referrals, it's pretty old school. Some sites operate as closed paywalls which you need to get into by talking to the operator over Telegram and other sites. Those sites are slightly harder to track, but people like to brag about their favourite sites for watching on, so anti-piracy intelligence companies track those discussions.

Folk who share content on social media for their friends? We don't greatly care about them. But it still gets enforced because YouTube and the other social media sites aid us with Content ID matching, because if we didn't then people would use that and get that monetised at scale. Plus account sharing is still revenue loss.

As for whose doing this and why? The biggest operations are run through criminal rings, this is an organised crime issue. But it's also mixed in with a good number of ambitious and smart individuals who want to make a buck. Because companies crack down on it, there is a degree of money laundering and other financial crimes on top. One of the interesting things is how many of the apps used for piracy are also loaded with malware, which can be productive for these gangs in many other ways. LTT did a video about this recently which is worth a watch.

I'm doing a great deal of work at the moment which will increase the security of streaming, not because I want to screw over the consumers, but because I want to protect our efforts. Security and anti-piracy are just a small aspect of the effort we make, and it's all about protecting what we've got. I will also say, one big aspect of anti-piracy is that you don't want to look like a leaky ship to the rightsholder and to the competition. You don't want your competition to point at you and say "Bob's product is a liability, the rightsholder should give the rights to us." and you want the rightsholders to think you're the best place for their content. As a rightsholder, it's not just about protecting revenues, it's also about protecting the brand. Have you seen these pirate sites? They're junk and advertising all sorts of weird scammy crap. It's not a good look for them to have their content on there.

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#223
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also an FU to people like me who work on the legal side of streaming. My work is devalued and my efforts are stolen by pirates for their own profit. They get the privilege of profiting from the streams we make which requires massive infrastructure, yet we get vilified. It's one thing to hate the way things are structured, it's another to think that it doesn't affect real people.

The companies themselves devalue it by not making it a valuable service. The pirates offer a better service, in your abscence of it.

They don't offer a better service, they offer a cheaper service (because they run a worse offering without any content production costs) and they don't offer geographic restrictions (which are not the fault of the streaming service provider, we'd happily take global rights and occasionally we do).

I don't speak for my employer, but I think it would be great if we were able to get global rights and companies compete with each other for the best value product on the market. Until then, we'll still aim to be the best product on the market and by giving the lowest price we can, we'll capture more market share (no one I work with is greedy, even our finance folk).

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The games are only viewable in the ESPN app. I’m pretty sure you can watch almost all EFL Championship games via ESPN Plus. You’ll have to download a different app, it’s not on Hulu,

ahh that is very good (and specific) information! i have tried to avoid "app"-based viewing, but it looks like i need to reconsider. thank you so much for the intel!

You're welcome, happy I could help.

Good luck with getting promoted...looks like there are only 2 regular season fixtures left but hopefully you can watch them.

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> THE ONLY sports governing body that has figured this out (for sports I like, anyway), is F1. No. The only ones who figured it out is the NFL. F1 shafted Germany after youg Schuhmacher came into F1 and German Sky bought exclusive rights. The NFL? Intl Game Pass €190 per season live streams, instant repeats no adverts, various show, dedicated tv apps, no limit on number of devices, high def.

In the USA, there is no way to simply pay the NFL or even any other entity to stream every single game. American football, ice hockey, baseball, basketball all have “black out” games and other bullshit, plus many times require a secondary subscription to a “TV” subscription, where you then have to hunt down which media provider is streaming the game. I would rather save my time and just not watch sports. Only US socc…

> I would rather save my time and just not watch sports. Only US soccer is decent because you can simply pay Apple and guarantee watch all the games.

This is exactly where I am. I grew up playing sports and I do enjoy watching them, but I never had TV growing up (thus never got "hooked"), and having to play the blackout game absolutely infuriates me.... so, I just don't watch.

Not opposed to paying by any means. In fact this post has informed me of F1 (in USA) and Apple TV+ (MLS) having no blackouts, so I actually just purchased F1 [0] (already had Apple TV+).

So I know I'm only a single person but F1 earned a purchase from me because of no blackouts.

___

[0] https://i.imgur.com/zs45cZp.png

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#226
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there? the advertising money already went back to the content producer, everybody got paid.

If the ad revenue isn't measured in terms of the consumption on the pirate streams then it's not ad revenue. Advertisers don't pay for eyeballs they can't quantify. If content is consumed via an illegal streaming site then it's potentially hurting revenues elsewhere.

Assuming those eyeballs would ever hit a legal streaming site.

By the time the content airs, the advertising money's mostly been made and traded already. In the terrestrial broadcasting world -- this is most definitely the case.

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#227
post #8

Sigh... f*ck sports leagues/governing bodies. The reason some honest people pirate streams for sporting events is because they make it so annoying to pay for them. Some examples... I live in the US. I briefly took an interest in the EPL. If I wanted to watch all EPL games (or have the option of watching any particular EPL game), I'd have to subscribe to Peacock _and_ Fubo -- and I'm still not sure that gets me all ga…

For anyone who is low to mildly interested in sports, this is pushing them to consume zero sports. I wonder if they're not shooting themselves in the foot long term.

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#228
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel for you. Here, GCN+ (or GCN+ Eurosport as it’s officially branded as a partnership being both owned by Warner Bros. Discovery along with BT Sport) has literally everything - from all the grand tours, to classics and even the most insignificant 1.2 and 2.2 ranked events. And all for a fair price. I didn’t even consider that in other territories the rights might be snapped up piecemeal style. That’s a shame.

At least its simple to watch region locked content with a vpn on GCN+.

Yep. Cycling is the easiest thing I watch because I have a browser with a VPN extension. Any requests that go to GCN go through UK :)

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#229
post #8

Sigh... f*ck sports leagues/governing bodies. The reason some honest people pirate streams for sporting events is because they make it so annoying to pay for them. Some examples... I live in the US. I briefly took an interest in the EPL. If I wanted to watch all EPL games (or have the option of watching any particular EPL game), I'd have to subscribe to Peacock _and_ Fubo -- and I'm still not sure that gets me all ga…

> I LOVE cycling. To watch every UCI race, I'd have to subscribe to GCN+ (they have the Giro), Peacock (they have the Tour de France and La Vuelta), and Flobikes (they have most of the Classics races). If you were okay with not watching it live, people were torrenting each day's stage of the tour de France in 2004 . There is a pretty big overlap between tech industry people and enthusiastic road cyclists. Now there's…

Shout out to my boy Tiz

Re: We glued together content moderation to stop soccer pirates

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watch Tottenham despite all that, you deserve the pain their football causes. Jokes apart, is the BT Sports "early kick off games" completely different from the Sky Sports game you mentioned? That's ridiculous. I was in England in Summer 2019 for the cricket world cup, and was shocked at how difficult it was to watch the games on TV. Wimbledon was very easy though, so maybe Tennis is way more popular?

Tennis is definitely not more popular. It's odd that you seem to think popularity = it would be easier. Soccer's popularity is what causes this issue because there is so much money to be made by splitting it up and selling to multiple companies rather than just one cheap, easy solution. If Tennis attempted the same it would be so detrimental to its viewership it wouldn't be able to survive. Unlike soccer which is so…

> It's odd that you seem to think popularity = it would be easier.

Yeah, I can see how my line of thinking doesn't make sense. I was thinking popular -> can earn more from ads, less popular -> need subscribers, but there is no way tennis shows more ads than football

In India it'd be unthinkable to put cricket on paid channels, because the money is from putting ads wherever there's space

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