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Effective Spaced Repetition

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Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#221

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

laurieg wrote: post #212

When people start using spaced repetition and flashcard software they often end up throwing a big list of "Most common 1000 French words" into it and then promptly being swamped by reviews and giving up. This is a bad idea for two reasons: When it comes to spaced repetition, quality beats quantity. Only put in the perfect nuggets of knowledge. You're walking through an orchard and grabbing a single apple, not a whole…

That's a solid advice.

> promptly being swamped by reviews and giving up

I faced Anki review hell even with small decks, So I had to create an always-on Anki e-Ink review system[1] which sits on my desk and shows me cards all day; Now I can choose to review the cards through out the day during small breaks without overwhelming myself with a single review session.

Due to the small real-estate (screen), I have to condense the information to what's really necessary and the act of doing it (on Anki desktop) itself helps me with my learning.

What I'm doing might be heretic to Spaced Repetition folks, But it works for me.

[1] https://memoryhammer.com/

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#222

Post by janwillemb »

I tried this a while, but then I realized that I'm mostly reading for fun. I don't want to memorize what I'm reading. Almost never.

Even whenever I really need to memorize stuff, I ended up using the memory palace technique, with Anki as "backend repository".

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#223

Post by danmaz74 »

Avijit_Thawani wrote: post #124

Other software which have nailed spaced repetition (and a much better UI than Anki): - https://www.duolingo.com/ (language learninig) - https://www.chessable.com/ (chess) - https://readwise.io/ (book highlights) - https://examarly.com/ (test prep) - https://app.bestudious.io/login (certifications - CFA) - https://magoosh.com/ (vocabulary)

Regarding chess, another one is https://chess.braimax.com

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#224

Post by kurthr »

xk_id wrote: post #139
oslac wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not call Duolingo a language learning application. It behaves more like language mimicry application. You learn a very particular subset of the language that I'd call "Duolingo ". This is my conclusion after using it for two non-English languages. You seriously need a basic beginner book if starting from fresh, and use Duolingo just as a repetition tool when you can during the day

Consensus among Serious language learners (i.e aiming for a B2+ level) is that duolingo is marginally useful for learning some vocabulary. A thorough course or textbook are essential

I used it for most of a year, and from what I can tell they go out of their gamified way to not teach any grammar or even vocabulary. Not all the time but ~20% popping up sounds and spellings, but providing no way at all to know/check what the meaning is... Why? Why not have a dictionary of the words you've "learned" and will be tested on?

Going to a fixed sequence of learning "the path" so that you're forced to cover topics and words in a specific order, and then introducing grammar that has never been taught... Why? Either cover them in order, or don't.

Eventually, you figure out the right answer by trial and error and "learn" it, but only after having developed a bad habits and wrong answers... Why? Of course there are Anki's and such out there that cover all the words so I guess they want you to just do that.

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#225

Post by jcul »

oslac wrote: post #137
Avijit_Thawani wrote: post #124

Other software which have nailed spaced repetition (and a much better UI than Anki): - https://www.duolingo.com/ (language learninig) - https://www.chessable.com/ (chess) - https://readwise.io/ (book highlights) - https://examarly.com/ (test prep) - https://app.bestudious.io/login (certifications - CFA) - https://magoosh.com/ (vocabulary)

I would not call Duolingo a language learning application. It behaves more like language mimicry application. You learn a very particular subset of the language that I'd call "Duolingo ". This is my conclusion after using it for two non-English languages. You seriously need a basic beginner book if starting from fresh, and use Duolingo just as a repetition tool when you can during the day

I found Duolingo very good while I was actually in the country and speaking the language I was trying to learn.

It didn't teach me to speak alone but expanded my vocabulary enough to stumble through conversations. Which was enough to being improving through speaking with locals.

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#226

Post by sam2426679 »

Avijit_Thawani wrote: post #124

Other software which have nailed spaced repetition (and a much better UI than Anki): - https://www.duolingo.com/ (language learninig) - https://www.chessable.com/ (chess) - https://readwise.io/ (book highlights) - https://examarly.com/ (test prep) - https://app.bestudious.io/login (certifications - CFA) - https://magoosh.com/ (vocabulary)

I'm a big fan of the Recall plugin for VS Code.

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=frenya.v...

You get all the code highlighting and markdown support built-in to the IDE. I used this plugin when studying data structures and algorithms for cracking faang interviews.

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#227

Post by eska »

laurieg wrote: post #212

When people start using spaced repetition and flashcard software they often end up throwing a big list of "Most common 1000 French words" into it and then promptly being swamped by reviews and giving up. This is a bad idea for two reasons: When it comes to spaced repetition, quality beats quantity. Only put in the perfect nuggets of knowledge. You're walking through an orchard and grabbing a single apple, not a whole…

Strong disagree.

I learned multiple languages this way. I think you’re better served by turning off the counter for cards remaining, and studying more often. Otherwise you’re not doing SRS at all.

One can’t remember 2300 Kanji as an aha-moment each.

Drilling all the possible combinations of Hangeul characters for recognition speed is very effective, but most cards won’t be an aha-moment.

One can use premade lists of vocabulary and prioritize vocabulary encountered in study material/real life. You’ll have to learn all the other vocabulary eventually anyway.

Decks with huge amounts of example sentences and audio simulate real conversation and drill listening comprehension and applied grammar.

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#228

Post by bsder »

ehnto wrote: post #215
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wanikani.com is a good example for the very specific market of "English speakers memorizing Japanese kanji." Great UI, great community, great sense of humor, well thought out mnemonics... ...and of course I still fell off the wagon after a few months, came back to a backlog in the thousands, and have had tremendous trouble getting back on the wagon.

WaniKani I found filled my head with meanings that didn't correlate to anything, and knowledge that wasn't actually useful. I am by no means a Japanese expert learner, but I am having much better luck just memorizing real vocab without that intermediate step. As someone pointed out about the much famed "Remebering the Kanji", you could remeber all the kanji perfectly and still not be able to read Japanese, because Ja…

Agreed. I pulled the top 1000 Japanese words and then entered those along with the specific kanji readings. Learning wonky kanji readings is for those masochists who want to pass JLPT Level N1.

You want to memorize in usage order as you are, nominally, an adult. You understand complex concepts and have developed motor skills. There is little point in learning in the order that a child would.

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#229

Post by kyorochan »

ehnto wrote: post #215
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wanikani.com is a good example for the very specific market of "English speakers memorizing Japanese kanji." Great UI, great community, great sense of humor, well thought out mnemonics... ...and of course I still fell off the wagon after a few months, came back to a backlog in the thousands, and have had tremendous trouble getting back on the wagon.

WaniKani I found filled my head with meanings that didn't correlate to anything, and knowledge that wasn't actually useful. I am by no means a Japanese expert learner, but I am having much better luck just memorizing real vocab without that intermediate step. As someone pointed out about the much famed "Remebering the Kanji", you could remeber all the kanji perfectly and still not be able to read Japanese, because Ja…

Remembering the Kanji is for learning how to write kanji, which does help with reading as well, but that's not its primary purpose. If you actually do want to be able to write by hand (which I think most people (understandably) don't want to invest the time for), it's well worth the time investment.

> it's not something you should spend your entire focus on before you start learning the actual language of Japanese This is also true. You can do both. In fact I think you /should/ do both, learning new vocabulary using the kanji you've learned so far to help motivate you to learn more. It's quite addicting when you can see your progress day-to-day.

Re: Effective Spaced Repetition

#230

Post by brigandish »

bsder wrote: post #228
ehnto wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WaniKani I found filled my head with meanings that didn't correlate to anything, and knowledge that wasn't actually useful. I am by no means a Japanese expert learner, but I am having much better luck just memorizing real vocab without that intermediate step. As someone pointed out about the much famed "Remebering the Kanji", you could remeber all the kanji perfectly and still not be able to read Japanese, because Ja…

Agreed. I pulled the top 1000 Japanese words and then entered those along with the specific kanji readings. Learning wonky kanji readings is for those masochists who want to pass JLPT Level N1. You want to memorize in usage order as you are, nominally, an adult. You understand complex concepts and have developed motor skills. There is little point in learning in the order that a child would.

If I remember correctly (ha), WaniKani is actually ordered by the simplicity of the kanji, as they also point out that children can only start with simple concepts but non-native adults have the concepts covered but will struggle with complex kanji.
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