Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#221

Post by kinghajj » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:25 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #130

lnsru wrote: post #67

Wanted to get Model Y in the past. Nice comfy car, huge backseat and… a camera filming inside the car. Thanks no. Apparently for drowsiness detection, but I am not buying it. Time of flight camera staring at the driver’s face is kinda normal in car industry. Not a normal color camera filming everything and streaming somewhere like Tesla does.

At the moment, AP still uses steering wheel torque. Just put a piece of tape over the interior camera. I'd be pretty surprised if any of the cameras routinely stream. Too much of a bandwidth hog.

The most recent FSD beta update from a few days ago finally started using the interior camera to track driver attentiveness, according to the release notes.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#222

Post by hgsgm » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

a4isms wrote: post #169

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a hackathon once, and they had a startup fair, where various companies had their booths. One startup had created a student-management system for schools. And the rep was demoing the system. Except with live data. Showing pages of real students with their pictures, home addresses, etc! So, principles aside, the actions of companies are such that there can be no trust.

I once had a classified ad software hustle, and I needed customer data to debug things. But one of my customers was Canada's largest gay newspaper, and ts classifieds were highly sensitive. So I wrote a routine that obfuscated the database, changing all phone numbers to 555-xxxx, changing all names to random names of fruit (So a customer might become Banana Grapes, 416-555-1234), and a few other changes to hide other…

Why on earth you create that in the first place, and put it in the menu?

How often do you need to trash production (which should be never -- copying and scrabling is plenty bad enough) that you need a menu shortcut for it?!?

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#223

Post by beepbooptheory » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

stalfosknight wrote: post #158

jimlongton wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the industry. It's not a "vehicle" any more - it's a "platform" to "engage" with customers, i.e. sell your data and lock features behind ridiculous monthly fees. That is now the mantra of the automotive industry. It really kills any enthusiasm I have for new cars.

Why does everyfuckingthing have to be about "engaging" with customers? Why can't people just be left with their private business?

Because from the companies point of view, what's the real downside? If their goal was to simply make a good product, then none of this stuff would really be used, but they have longterm growth to think about too!

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#224

Post by SCdF » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

liminalsunset wrote: post #41

While some of the behaviour here is less professional than I'd expect for user data, I'm wondering what a good architecture for building a system to leverage visual telemetry without harming user privacy would really look like. The problem is that: 1) It's very difficult to manually or automatically scrub identifying information from video, and doing so probably greatly reduces the value of the data for AI training p…

The answer is to not build this system.

If I have already paid 10s of thousands of dollars / pounds for your car why am I also generating data for your AI garbage as well?

Opt in if you like, with a coherent discussion and understanding of the privacy risks. Have a "tesla club" where you opt in and get sent a bottle of wine every month or something, but the attitude that you should get this information by default, for free, is fucked up.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#225

Post by blackfawn » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #118

nix0n wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Time of flight camera staring at the driver’s face is kinda normal in car industry What?

[flagged]

Is there any concern of additional eye fatigue w/ time-of-flight sensors? It's purely anecdotal but I was on a project that involved ToF sensors and and a couple on my desk pointed at me. After some time, I noticed my eyes hurt by the time I got home. The eye pain went away after I stopped having the ToF sensors pointed at my face all day.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#226

Post by morkalork » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #141

morkalork wrote: post #45

Yikes. So turning private images into memes and posting them internally isn't a fireable offence but union talk is? Such impeccable standards for conduct.

Let's wait and see if these employees get fired, this just broke. Typically an investigation happens. Reminds me of the Uber Christmas party story where they had things like this on a projector

It's not like the memes were posted internally today, firing them now is just a reactionary response. The problem is that they let it go on the entire time before now.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#227

Post by progman32 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #55

mikece wrote: post #21

Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels.

BMW i3 was such a car, but they stopped making it. I loved mine (2014) but sold it needing longer range than first year battery size allowed.

Current owner of a '14 i3. Sorry, but the i3 has a telematics module and a cell modem. It talks to BMW. The first gen ones only have a 3g modem though, so at least they are muzzled in areas that have dropped that network.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#228

Post by Youden » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

mikece wrote: post #21

Wake me up when there's an EV that is just a car and not an always-connected surveillance device on wheels.

I have a Kia EV6. It's perfectly functional without an internet connection.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#229

Post by Verdex » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

kevviiinn wrote: post #164

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a hackathon once, and they had a startup fair, where various companies had their booths. One startup had created a student-management system for schools. And the rep was demoing the system. Except with live data. Showing pages of real students with their pictures, home addresses, etc! So, principles aside, the actions of companies are such that there can be no trust.

Someone should have walked up with their phone camera and shouted "ooh hey, nice addresses!" And just started snapping away (or at least pretending to)

I would not be surprised if their resolution to someone taking pictures in order to show them the error in their ways would be for them to call to police and have you arrested.

Re: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

#230

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #191

giantg2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory would be to rebuild it with a roll cage, harness, etc for mixed use. In theory, these safety systems are superior to airbags. The only impediments to helmets/Hans with a real harness are people who don't use the existing seat belt (airbag can prevent ejection) and they are too inconvenient for the general public.

absolutely not. Roll cages are completely unsafe in a street car unless you’re wearing a helmet. Also two words: Crumple zones. You don’t want a super hard Skelton, that will only increase crash forces.

"Roll cages are completely unsafe in a street car unless you’re wearing a helmet."

No shit, that's why I mention a helmet.

Roll cages, if properly done, do not affect crumple zones. The passenger compartment should not be crumbling and that's the only part a roll cage should be in. Keep in mind that actual race cars have a rigid occupant compartment, crash at higher speeds, and have great safety records due in part to the protection offered from a harness, helmet, and hans. On the other hand, airbags are more prone to failure and can injure or even kill people.

The only reason I mention a roll cage is because it would be for dual use. You could use a helmet/hans in place of an airbag in a regular street car and would likely be safer. Again, the only reasons we have for not doing that is that some people don't use their seat belts and most people would find it inconvenient.