Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#221

Post by cbeach » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

andreygrehov wrote: post #161

goalieca wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? Russia says a lot of things, often contradictory, but what really speaks is their actions. Invading Ukraine wasn’t about denazification, or nato threat, or anything except naked imperialism.

[flagged]

Let's be honest, the Azov Brigade should be condemned. But have they killed as many innocent civilians as the Russians over the last couple of years?

In a morally consistent world, both the Azovs and aggressive Russian regime should be countered, without any need for loss of innocent life. No one should use the existence of Azovs as an excuse to invade a country and murder innocent people.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#222

Post by lazide » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #72

morkalork wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading about what the Soviet Union did in countries like Estonia and Ukraine is pretty harrowing stuff. Wanting to join NATO for protection after is completely understandable and denying them because it would upset their former (and present) abuser is a shameful thought.

Very true. Though it's good to remember the Soviet Union did even worse things to Russia.

Eh, Moscow always ran the USSR. That’s a bit like lamenting that how messed up an abusers knuckles got after hitting it on folks faces for so long.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#223

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:40 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #10

motohagiography wrote: post #6

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The smart view of that is that regardless of whatever ridiculous arguments for Russian imperialism people want to engage in Russia is not physically capable of conquering the Baltic states.

Well, not since they joined NATO in 2004. I'm not sure I would have bet entirely on "not able to", either, prior to 2022: the advancing forces in Ukraine crossed a distance greater than the width of the Balkans before being stopped. It's quite possible a single overnight push to the capitals of Estonia and Latvia would have worked. Turning it into a grinding air war while NATO ground forces were brought into position to retake it.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#224

Post by watwut » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:40 PM UTC

andreygrehov wrote: post #161

goalieca wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? Russia says a lot of things, often contradictory, but what really speaks is their actions. Invading Ukraine wasn’t about denazification, or nato threat, or anything except naked imperialism.

[flagged]

I would be somewhat willing to believe is Russia got rid of own Neonazi first. Which is not what happening, Russia has quite strong movement. It is also quite racist country, socially-culturally very much like nazi were - having a thing against gays, celebrating violence, all of that.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#225

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

Meanwhile, Sweden's NATO application is blocked by Turkey because former Peshmerga fighter Amineh Kakabaveh happened to become very powerful in the chaotic Swedish parliament a few years ago.

The story: https://www.outlookindia.com/international/former-kurdish-re...

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#226

Post by yeahwhatever10 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

INTPenis wrote: post #157

As a Swede this makes me happy, partially because Finland shares a lot of their border with Russia and can now feel safe knowing they have the might of 30 nations behind them, but also because we're now surrounded by NATO countries. So no need for us to join, right? Right?! Let's remain neutral and a free haven for political dissidents and potential refugees of the future, right?!!

Is that how NATO is spoken about in Europe, that it is the might of 30 nations and not just the US?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#227

Post by mupuff1234 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #6

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And yet Finland had no issue with NATO being on it's border all this time. (or a bunch of other countries for that matter)

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#228

Post by ckrapu » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #147

thehappypm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia literally invaded Finland last century

Finland was also part of Russia until 1917.

Yeah, and the Finns hated it. My ancestors immigrated to the US to avoid being drafted from Finland into the imperial Russian army.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#229

Post by foverzar » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

So, this is mostly a US-centric forum, but I wonder what is the take on this from the perspective of a Finnish person.

Is there any controversy or concerns of becoming a foothold for future conflicts? This whole thing has been dragging on for sometime now, had the opinions shifted over time?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#230

Post by KptMarchewa » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #194

myth_drannon wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And before the Revolution, Tsarist regime did even more horrowing things to its people. Sadly Russia never had a ruling entity that was good. Well there was hope in the 80's with Gorbachev and Krushev with his Thaw period, but these were short lived and the system went back to its stable state of terrorizing its citizens.

The Soviet Union killed between 20-60 million of its own people. Did Tsarist Russia really do anything that competes with that?

Not the same scale, but yeah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide