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Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

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Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#221

Post by specialist »

Ntrails wrote: post #211
rocket_surgeron wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal agencies do what they’re told. The restrictions on pseudoephedrine were mandated by Congress through the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005 (passed as part of the patriot act) which followed various state legislatures’ passages of similar laws. The main driving force behind the law was Bush’s White House drug task force and several members of Congress. Federal agencies very, very, rarely solicit or p…

> Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005 (passed as part of the patriot act) This change was passed under special anti-terrorist powers? (Not US so possible misunderstood)

I found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Methamphetamine_Epidemi...

It was added as a part of a reauthorization of the original Patriot Act.

US Federal policy making and legislation is a bit like calvinball. And for misc reasons, Congress tends to pass large (omnibus) bills, instead of more reasonable units of work.

As an outsider looking in, I collect and read stuff about "the sausage factory".

Here's one study that looks past the folk theories, to illuminate how some example laws came to be. Similarly comprehensive books could be written about most all major legislation.

SYMPOSIUM: UNORTHODOX LAWMAKING, UNORTHODOX RULEMAKING

https://www.columbialawreview.org/content/unorthodox-lawmaki...

"The Schoolhouse Rock! cartoon version of the conventional legislative process is dead, if it was ever an accurate description in the first place. Major policy today is often the product of “unorthodox lawmaking” and “unorthodox rulemaking”—deviations from tradi­tional process marked by frequent use of omnibus bills and multiple agency implementation; emergency statutes and regulations issued without prior comment; outsourcing to lawmaking commissions and unconventional delegates; process shortcuts outside of emergencies; presidential policymaking; and outside drafters, some nonpartisan and others hyperpartisan. These unorthodoxies are everywhere, and they have shifted the balance in the elected branches and beyond, often centralizing power in actors—like party leadership and the White House—not traditionally part of the core lawmaking and rulemaking processes. These unorthodoxies are the new textbook process."

BOOK: Unorthodox Lawmaking: New Legislative Processes in the U.S. Congress [2017]

https://sk.sagepub.com/cqpress/unorthodox-lawmaking-5e

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#222

Post by romwell »

westmeal wrote: post #8
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that to be expected, though? There's plenty of people who wouldn't subject themselves to the ordeal of going to the doctors to pursue a diagnosis of an untreatable disease. You just suffer through it. In contrast, if there's a known treatment for it, then the reward (not having ADD symptoms) dramatically outweighs the cost (of drudging through doctors appointments). I'd bet the number of surgeries significantly…

I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the t…

> Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in?

>take meth

Ah yes, the good old "Adderall is meth" ridiculousness.

Sure, Adderall is amphetamine, and meth is methamphetamine, just one methyl group of a difference - practically the same thing, right?

Just like ethanol (aka vodka) and methanol (deadly poison, makes you blind) - one one ethyl group difference, practically the same thing!

Please stop referring to medication[1] many people rely on as "meth".

Or if you must do so - consider having a shot of methanol next time you go for a drink.

If it's the same to you, then why not?

[1]https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#223

Post by Auracle »

sgarland wrote: post #137

To anyone struggling to fill an Adderall script, look into Adzenys. It's literally the exact same drug, with a different release mechanism (orally disintegrating tablet instead of a capsule you swallow). It's also not nearly at the same demand level, so it's easy to fill.

All for the low low price of $350, according to GoodRx - roughly the same as Vyvanse.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#224

Post by Auracle »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #130
hombre_fatal wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Vyvanse is better than Adderall except for being more expensive. I was on Adderall XR 20mg for 10 years and then switched to Vyvanse 50mg. For me, Vyvanse lasts longer, doesn't have as much of a narcotic peak, and feels like it's more consistently strong for the whole curve. Just putting it out there because some people have suggested that it was an inferior alternative (and it may be for some people). Some peopl…

Just some things to be aware of: - Vyvanse 50 is roughly twice the dosage of Adderall 20 - It’s generally not a good idea to split the XR pills, but they won’t split the same way. As I understand it: Adderall XR and its generics are typically designed as a dual release (either two immediate doses, one delayed; or one immediate and one gradual; both can have the peak/drop off effect). Vyvanse has a more continuous rel…

I very much don’t find the equivalent doses of Vyvanse and Adderall…uh, equivalent. I don’t know if it has to do with the delivery mechanism or the norepinephrine component but personally I feel like ~35mg of Adderall is closer to Vyvanse’s 50mg.

I have idiopathic hypersomnia and not ADHD, though.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#225

Post by hammyhavoc »

876978095789789 wrote: post #154
junofan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say the same about autism? It’s amazing we’ve found an effective treatment for ADHD. Why is it good that patients are often unable to access it? Who benefits?

I never said people with ADHD shouldn't receive treatment; I said there are far too many people who don't have ADHD popping amphetamines to get an edge in work or academia, and I'm glad to see they're finally being cut off from their dealers. For some reason, HNers really hate being told that not everyone taking these drugs 100% has ADHD and 100% needs them. Scott Aaronson's post on this (which was discussed here) is…

"an edge in work" Anecdata: anyone I've ever seen without ADHD who takes amphetamines for an "edge" does shit work. Period. Sure, they may do a lot of it, but it's complete and utter shit in quality.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#226

Post by rejectfinite »

sho wrote: post #184
carlmr wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually yes, in Germany if you break your bones you get ibuprofen, if you get your wisdom teeth pulled, you get ibuprofen. We don't have an opioid crisis anymore. Pain is a fact of life. The problem in the US is that there's the expectation to work the next day. It's ok to be in pain, it's also ok to miss out on work. If you accept these two basic facts you don't have an opioid crisis anymore.

> Pain is a fact of life I see you have never been in any real pain, ever. What do you get for cancer in Germany? Still ibuprofen? There's a reason opioids exist and were such a revolution in medicine. They really work. Ibuprofen et al are fine for what they are, but anti-inflammatories can only do so much. We should be able to solve the over-prescribing and addiction issues as a society without throwing the baby out…

Broken boke pain and cancer pain seems very different.

Sweden sounds the same as germany, you get 800mg ibuprofen and normal 500mg paracetamol.

We DO have opioids for cancer pain.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#227

Post by ufmace »

ultrarunner wrote: post #161
hotpotamus wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had a problem getting pseudoephedrine, though it is behind the counter in a pharmacy these days. There are limits, but they are well over what I would consider a therapeutic dose. I don't know if that varies state-to-state, but I doubt it's a federal issue.

https://reason.com/2009/09/28/hoosier-grandmother-arrested-f...

This outrage-bait is curiously at odds with the sentiment in the sibling post by /u/fnordfnordfnord. Do you want front-level employees to judge whether somebody "look like a person who would manufacturer amphetamines" or not? If the answer is yes, then people who look sketchy in some random pharmacy worker's opinion are the only ones to get arrested, whether or not they're actually up to anything. If the answer is no, then yes indeed it's correct to arrest grandmas who break the law because we're not allowed to judge whether they look like they're cooking meth or not.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#228

Post by rejectfinite »

klooney wrote: post #67
ehPReth wrote: post #64

holy poop. getting off of benzos is not a fun experience and for some they're really needed to make day to day life... even barely bearable the fuck is wrong with these people

Cold turkeying benzos can give you permanent brain damage, I think.

Yes, like death.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#229

Post by dsfyu404ed »

bawolff wrote: post #109
pnw wrote: post #78

Articles like this and reading about the FDA forcing drug manufacturers to replace pseudoephedrine (effective cold medicine) with phenylephrine (basically a placebo) really make me wonder about the intelligence level of the federal agencies. https://pharmacy.ufl.edu/2015/10/14/uf-researchers-ask-fda-t...

Why would that make you wonder about their intelligence? FDA having different priorities than you is not the same as them being stupid.

Results matter. I don't care if you're doing a bad job because you're evil or because you're stupid or because you're staffed with a bunch of people who are mostly apathetic and the few who aren't and are driving policy are tunnel vision extremists with mission goals that do not line up well with the public (a frequent situation for these kinds of organizations). Stop doing a bad job.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#230

Post by phendrenad2 »

sybercecurity wrote: post #210
bawolff wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that make you wonder about their intelligence? FDA having different priorities than you is not the same as them being stupid.

Correct. It's sometimes referred to as "mission blindness": when a bureaucracy (or part of a bureaucracy) is so focused on short-term mission goals to the detriment of everything else. The people taking these actions will continue this path unless the told otherwise.

Again, this presupposes that they are prioritizing things in some objective way. Perhaps based on the data they're looking at, it makes sense to do this. And no, "they should ignore that data because it's obviously wrong, according to me" isn't valid.
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