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Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

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Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#221

Post by capableweb »

bioemerl wrote: post #157
capableweb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also why steam is still the leader despite having a terrible UI: they have been very good to their customers. Steams core customer is the game developers/publishers, who they take a ~30% (last time I checked) cut from the profits from. The people who buy games are simply users of Steam, and Steam has to treat them well, otherwise their actual customers (developers/publishers) won't get as much profits, and indirect…

Developers don't pay that 30 percent, users do. You could even say that steam is a customer of the developers (I buy your game at x to sell for y), and the average person is a customer of steam and the devs. I don't really see the customers or the developers as the core. Both groups tie into each other in a big network effect.

> Developers don't pay that 30 percent, users do.

No really, the developers have 30% removed from a sale which goes to Steam. People who buy games don't see a price + 30%, it's the developer who sees the fee when they look at the sales. Otherwise all receipts from Steam would be $GAME_PRICE + $STEAM_FEE, but it's simply $GAME_PRICE and then the developer when looking through their sales, that see $GAME_PRICE - $STEAM_FEE.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#222

Post by [deleted] »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #29
Kiro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you chargeback in Fortnite instead of just refunding? The only reasons I can think of are fraudulent ones.

I'm not familiar with the Fortnite cash shop, but do they refund hard currency or just "points"/ fun bucks?

[deleted]

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#223

Post by dkersten »

vuln wrote: post #52
paulmd wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but the EU can simply outlaw those types of contractual arrangements going forward, and require that prior purchases be either defaulted into the new purchase arrangement or refunded. Welcome to governments that are actually responsive to protecting their citizens. It doesn't have to be the way it is in the US with corporations holding all the cards, that's just regulatory capture in action. That's…

It would be interesting to see the EU try and force a company to host something in perpetuity. Interesting thought exercise.

I forced a book publisher to re-host videos on a particular CDN using the exact same URL’s because they advertised that the book came with videos, but the QR codes stopped working. Can’t imagine that was fun or cheap to fix.

I made a complaint to the advertising standards authority in the UK. They agreed with my complaint and forced the publisher to get the URL’s working again. I’m not sure how long they will keep working, but I imagine they have to at least for as long as the book is in print.

Not the EU, but I imagine the EU has a lot more clout than the ASA does.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#224

Post by madeofpalk »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #210
madeofpalk wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel like this is a meaningful change. If steam changed all the "Buy" to "Rent" on it's website, nothing would actually change.

Customers would be informed. Many would leave for GOG.com

I do not think customer behaviour would change that much.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#225

Post by everly »

habitue wrote: post #215
everly wrote: post #212

This type of thing definitely makes me less sympathetic to their complaints about Apple's anti-consumer practices (regardless of the validity of those complaints)

Don't fall victim to the halo effect! Both Epic and Apple are right on some issues, and horrifically wrong on others.

I completely agree with you - but almost impossible not to think of that immediately upon reading the headline.

Loudly positioning themselves as pro-consumer makes this look more hypocritical than it would have otherwise.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#226

Post by justinclift »

yatac42 wrote: post #209
justinclift wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, I've specifically mentioned Steam and Amazon.

Yes and buying music on Amazon (which is what the comment I originally responded to was about), you get system number 2, i.e. a DRM-free MP3 download. Buying movies on Amazon is a different matter entirely, but the comment and my reply were specifically about music.

Nah. Being able to download a digital purchase at one point, but potentially being unable to download it again later on is a crap system.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#227

Post by navane »

cwkoss wrote: post #174
paulmd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say this too. This just needs to be the rule generally. Steam and Amazon do the same thing - get hacked and get charged for some items, if you dispute the Steam charge you lose your $5000 account, that's not a fair playing field and effectively negates the protection offered by credit card networks. Hopefully steam resolves it, that's always the first line of defense, but if they don't, you still can't c…

Alternately (or additionally), I'd love for regulatory prohibition of implied ownership of these sorts of items. Ex. if access is revokable, it's illegal to use the word "Buy" alone - have to use "Rent" or "License" or "Buy License" or something that doesn't imply ownership (because ownership is not being offered)

Its funny how Buy is actually Rent, like how Steal is actually Copy.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#228

Post by crazygringo »

I'm just curious for the actual UX and platform details.

At least on my iPhone even if an app doesn't ask for confirmation before a purchase, Apple Pay shows a confirmation dialog that requires Touch ID.

Are there mobile flows that don't require a confirmation dialog by the payment service itself (in my case, Apple Pay)?

Or is this mainly about platforms outside of mobile, like PC games where Epic itself has your credit card or something?

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#229

Post by camhart »

naniwaduni wrote: post #211
camhart wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the business side of this to consider. Disputes are expensive--companies are forced to pay significant fees whether they win or lose the dispute. A dishonest customer lying to their bank about your product/service should be able to be banned from using your product/service. Otherwise, what's to stop them from maliciously charging then filing disputes over and over again? To be clear, I'm talking about a diff…

> Otherwise, what's to stop them from maliciously charging then filing disputes over and over again? Their bank?

The bank profits from it... no incentive on the banks part to stop it.

Re: Epic Games to pay $245M for tricking users into making unwanted charges

#230

Post by bcrosby95 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #161
bluetidepro wrote: post #5

> Additionally, the order bars Epic from blocking consumers from accessing their accounts for disputing unauthorized charges. This could be bigger than people realize. This is very common in many tech companies like Uber/Doordash/Sony/etc. where if you do a chargeback, you often get blacklisted on their service. It would be amazing if this starts to end this practice, and you can actually have authority to get your m…

I run an ecommerce business, and pretty much always always block customers who file a chargeback or dispute. They're completely draining to deal with, usually fraudulent, and the only way to win one is to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the buyer is lying.

We do this too, but also, if someone asks for a refund, pretty much regardless of circumstances, we issue a refund. So the only excuse turns into "I felt like being a dick" or it was actual fraud anyways.
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