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Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

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Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#221

Post by sumeno »

rvnx wrote: post #200
thethimble wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, but the question isn’t whether it is useful but whether it will replace traditional search

Yes it will replace search. The same way that cars replaced horses, and planes replaced zeppelins because they are had a significant speed advantage and allowed humans to spend time doing more productive activities that can't be automated. Then traditional search is going to become "raw index search" that you can query writing something like "intitle:"carbonara" source:"google_index"" or "give me all webpages contain…

And how Google Glass replaced smartphones, bitcoin replaced USD, Juicero replaced juicers, Segways replaced walking, and Second Life replaced life.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#222

Post by xorcist »

dragontamer wrote: post #164
segmondy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing weird about it. It's called first mover's advantage. Wanna make electric cars, you have to beat Tesla. No matter how nice your car is. If your range is worse. Booo. If your self driving is equivalent or worse, Boo. Whatever Tesla has done, you must be better at. You need better design, cheaper price, better range, better reliability else no one would notice you.

Apple came after Blackberry. Dell came after Commodore / Amiga. Facebook came after MySpace. Google came after Altavisa and Yahoo. Verizon came after AOL. Alternating Current came after Direct Current. Microsoft Word came after WordPerfect. Chrome came after Netscape Communicator. Python came after Perl. Nintendo came after Atari. I feel like first movers advantage is a myth.

One thing a lot of people misremembers is just how long it took. Microsoft Word was launched only couple of years after WordPerfect, in the early 80s. It didn't dominate word processing until the middle of the 90s.

It took more than a decade. They basically built out the features and waited until their competitors made some strategic mistake, of which they made several in that decade.

It was pretty much the same with Netscape and MSIE. That monopoly misuse probably helped, but Netscape also seemed bent on killing itself. Despite the mismanagement, it still took almost five years.

Perl was more popular than Python for more than a decade. Having much of the early web developed on it didn't help in the long run. First mover advantage might be a thing, but it never wins in the long run. And in the long run, ten years is nothing.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#223

Post by chimeracoder »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #192
dragontamer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple came after Blackberry. Dell came after Commodore / Amiga. Facebook came after MySpace. Google came after Altavisa and Yahoo. Verizon came after AOL. Alternating Current came after Direct Current. Microsoft Word came after WordPerfect. Chrome came after Netscape Communicator. Python came after Perl. Nintendo came after Atari. I feel like first movers advantage is a myth.

> Apple came after Blackberry. Apple and specifically Jony Ive started the development of a handheld computer in the early 90s. Apple was definitely not a second comer to that market. https://www.businessinsider.com/jony-ives-first-apple-design...

> Apple and specifically Jony Ive started the development of a handheld computer in the early 90s. Apple was definitely not a second comer to that market.

That's an odd way to define "not a second comer". The Apple Newton was a PDA, but it wasn't the first to hit the market.

Sure, it was in development before that, but that's true of every device that was released in that generation. And besides, "first mover advantage" doesn't refer to the first to begin research on a product; it refers to the first to release a product into the market.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#224

Post by jonathanlb »

aliqot wrote: post #150
wccrawford wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything has to be turned up to 11 today because too many people think they won't get enough attention if they actually label something as severe/important as it actually is.

Think about it, we stopped watching traditional news, then shunned news that was too slow because twitter was faster though sometimes wrong. so traditional news media was like "aight, bet" and now we are where we are. the trump era fully solidified that the more ragetastic you can make your title, the more people tribe up and engage in the comments so your one shitty little 30 second article now has people mobbing to…

You're not wrong, but the scope isn't limited to traditional news. The power of mass media (including social media) plus the ratings/profit-motive led us to expect entertainment at all times, and it's been a long time coming. Back in the '60s JFK's FCC Chairman gave his "vast wasteland" speech, which still rings true:

> When television is good, nothing — not the theater, not the magazines or newspapers — nothing is better.

> But when television is bad, nothing is worse. I invite each of you to sit down in front of your television set when your station goes on the air and stay there, for a day, without a book, without a magazine, without a newspaper, without a profit and loss sheet or a rating book to distract you. Keep your eyes glued to that set until the station signs off. I can assure you that what you will observe is a vast wasteland.

> You will see a procession of game shows, formula comedies about totally unbelievable families, blood and thunder, mayhem, violence, sadism, murder, western bad men, western good men, private eyes, gangsters, more violence, and cartoons. And endlessly, commercials — many screaming, cajoling, and offending. And most of all, boredom. True, you’ll see a few things you will enjoy. But they will be very, very few. And if you think I exaggerate, I only ask you to try it.

An article I enjoyed about this topic can be found here (non-paywalled): https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2F...

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#225

Post by minsc_and_boo »

conqrr wrote: post #208
tastyminerals2 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I am somewhat in disbelief about the level people here downgrade the recent Bing upgrade. The chatbot feature is a such a time saver for jobs where you need to write tons of abstract surface-level content. Just yesterday, I tried compiling a monthly teachers working plan for some local school in Ukrainian language. What it spawned in a minute was at least a day of typing work for a human. This is especially use…

That's really nice, but how will you monetize it? In its chat form, that's going to be very difficult. Anyone can train it and launch their own LLM, there's know monopoly or differentiator. Sure, its possible overtime it will uplift search engines, but create a new Industry vertical like Search, Mobile, Social Media, Cloud. I think of it more as a feature /augmentation than its own thing.

Services. Inevitably some of the queries involve recommending a service, and when you have two equal substitute services in a market, both will pay a certain price to be recommended over the other.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#226

Post by mindcrime »

dragontamer wrote: post #164
segmondy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing weird about it. It's called first mover's advantage. Wanna make electric cars, you have to beat Tesla. No matter how nice your car is. If your range is worse. Booo. If your self driving is equivalent or worse, Boo. Whatever Tesla has done, you must be better at. You need better design, cheaper price, better range, better reliability else no one would notice you.

Apple came after Blackberry. Dell came after Commodore / Amiga. Facebook came after MySpace. Google came after Altavisa and Yahoo. Verizon came after AOL. Alternating Current came after Direct Current. Microsoft Word came after WordPerfect. Chrome came after Netscape Communicator. Python came after Perl. Nintendo came after Atari. I feel like first movers advantage is a myth.

I feel like first movers advantage is a myth.

I don't think there's any question that there is an advantage to being a first mover. What I think is a mistake is thinking that it's an absolute advantage, and/or not recognizing that it's also true that there are advantages to to not being the first mover. I mean, there's a reason why the "fast follower strategy"[1] exists as well.

I think in reality though, all of this is over-simplifying things. There are a LOT of variables in the equation for "does this product succeed or not" where "being first to market" is just one of those variables.

[1]: https://fourweekmba.com/fast-follower/

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#227

Post by mzs »

tastyminerals2 wrote: post #189
npalli wrote: post #9

Here's the weird thing though, as discussed yesterday [1], the Microsoft demo was totally broken as well. In the end, everyone is looking for a big platform shift (next MOBILE!!!) and hype getting ahead of reality. When we look back in 3 months we will wonder why we thought LLM/GPT type queries will replace search in all forms. https://dkb.blog/p/bing-ai-cant-be-trusted

Nope. I am somewhat in disbelief about the level people here downgrade the recent Bing upgrade. The chatbot feature is a such a time saver for jobs where you need to write tons of abstract surface-level content. Just yesterday, I tried compiling a monthly teachers working plan for some local school in Ukrainian language. What it spawned in a minute was at least a day of typing work for a human. This is especially use…

Yikes, I don't have access to bing chatbot but google translate for Ukrainian is not great compared to Polish or Russian. I would not rely on it for any work.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#228

Post by oofta-boofta »

AlbertCory wrote: post #216

Xoogler here. I'll ignore the AI and "has Google lost its way?" threads, not that they're not interesting. Rather, Sundar: he's the inevitable product when you hire a CEO based on his longevity and whether everyone likes him. In the military they distinguish between a "barracks general" and a "combat general." He's the former. He looks good when nothing bad is happening.

Whew boy you hit the nail on the head. Google just seems to be aimless at this point, and now with the layoffs (despite their immense profitability) they're going to have a much tougher time hiring and retaining top talent.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#230

Post by AlwaysRock »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #212
tastyminerals2 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I am somewhat in disbelief about the level people here downgrade the recent Bing upgrade. The chatbot feature is a such a time saver for jobs where you need to write tons of abstract surface-level content. Just yesterday, I tried compiling a monthly teachers working plan for some local school in Ukrainian language. What it spawned in a minute was at least a day of typing work for a human. This is especially use…

"abstract surface-level content" aka "bullshit"

Bullshit to you but full time work for plenty...
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