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Why I'm a Pirate

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221–230 of 527 posts

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#221
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

> If the food is too expensive at your favourite restaurant, you don't pull a runner after the meal, you simply don't eat there, and you hope that in time the owners will realize and make adjustments. But if they choose not to, then that is their right. Stuff like this really hurts your argument, IMO. When you eat at a restaurant and then don't pay, that restaurant loses a substantial amount of money. When you pirate…

Saying that "when you pirate something the creator loses zero money" is an even worse argument.

You actually missed my point though (but I concede I used a rather simplified argument).

I was actually taking the "it's not available in my area" or "it's to expensive" argument of the OP to justify piracy to its logical conclusion.

I was pointing out that you can't circumvent the creator/owner's choices or restrictions on distribution, availability and pricing (i.e. "the food is too expensive here") just because you don't agree with them. It's not a level playing field.

If you don't like the creator's choices, don't participate in his creation. There really is no other choice.

While digital media creates the illusion of the "victimless crime" because you aren't taking something physical, it doesn't remove the fact that you are benefiting from someone else's hard work without agreeing to their terms of use, whatever those may be.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#222

Creative effort - or at at least any that is truly worthy of the name - takes tears, and sweat, and blood. We can marvel at the output of an artist, or a writer, or a composer, or a film maker and yet fail to focus on the years of toil that often preceded that work. And I am not here speaking of some isolated genius. I still remember the days when I was so dissatisfied with my lack of writing skills that I decided to…

"I have sole control over what is done with that which I create."

Actually, the US Constitution only allows for limited control, not unlimited control. The Constitution requires Fair Use exceptions to your control of your created works.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#223
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the food is too expensive at your favourite restaurant, you don't pull a runner after the meal, you simply don't eat there, and you hope that in time the owners will realize and make adjustments. But if they choose not to, then that is their right. Stuff like this really hurts your argument, IMO. When you eat at a restaurant and then don't pay, that restaurant loses a substantial amount of money. When you pirate…

Saying that "when you pirate something the creator loses zero money" is an even worse argument. You actually missed my point though (but I concede I used a rather simplified argument). I was actually taking the "it's not available in my area" or "it's to expensive" argument of the OP to justify piracy to its logical conclusion. I was pointing out that you can't circumvent the creator/owner's choices or restrictions o…

If it is your belief that the creator's terms of use should reign supreme, that is legitimate, but if you want to argue for it then you need to actually argue for it.

I wouldn't say that I missed your point, merely that I objected to a particular argument you used it making it. I realize this is a lower level of discourse than addressing your main point entirely, but I'm hoping that it would raise the level of discourse overall.

For reasons I've never understood, copyright advocates love comparing copyright infringement with physical theft. If copyright infringement is bad then it should be possible, nay preferable, to argue this on its own merits, not through bad analogies.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#224
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an economic cost. If even one person pirates a digital work who WOULD have paid for it had pirating not been an option, it causes a cost to the producer of the media. So there is a real cost.

And if one person buys a digital work due to piracy who otherwise would not have even known the artist existed, there is a benefit. Do you have any evidence that the costs outweigh the benefits?

Who is pirating works from artists they've never heard of? Everyone I know who pirates stuff is actively looking for something.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#225
post #143

OP, if this is just a whine about how unfair the world is and how special you are, then fine. But if it's an attempt to make something happen (stop SOPA), then it's not working and is in fact counterproductive, so please just STFU. You are offsetting the good hard work of so many others trying to make the right things happen. Make no mistake about it, we have reached the point where the best course of action is proba…

Perhaps your "life is unfair" line could be extended to the artists who feel it's their natural right to take advantage of the diminishing costs of digital distribution.

That is the problem though. I am paying for the rights to pay for the music instead of paying for the music.

That is exactly where it went wrong.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#226
A better title "Why I'm a Thief".

You can always choose not to buy it or watch it if you dislike it. Is it something like air that you really can't live without? People tend to be greedy. No matter the big guys or the little guys. Just the same. People sucks.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#227
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pirating is not right. Most people would agree with that, too." The biggest problem I see today is that there are so many people who aren't even bothering to justify pirating, and instead insist that it is natural, good and just -- not just as a means to get access to content they otherwise wouldn't be able to, but for everything. To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply…

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

> The legitimate option is GO WITHOUT IT. You have no RIGHT to anything here...

Legally? Indeed. Ethically? I disagree. I have the RIGHT to partake in what is part of my culture. Whether I like it or no, series, games and movies changed my worldview and made me the person with a extensive cultural knowledge I am today. Of course, I can do with what I can see legally, and I do, but although the TV series here in Flanders are very, very good, there's just not that much of them. And I can go to the theatre, but when was the last time a cinema in Belgium showed "2001"? And does any big company really deserve to make anymore money of that?

Or consider this. I'm a huge fan of "My Little Pony". The series and the community around it have enriched my life enormously. What are the odds that without the internet and without piracy I would have ever seen it?

Without piracy, I would have been a much less interesting person and I believe I have the right to be the person I am today.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#228

Creative effort - or at at least any that is truly worthy of the name - takes tears, and sweat, and blood. We can marvel at the output of an artist, or a writer, or a composer, or a film maker and yet fail to focus on the years of toil that often preceded that work. And I am not here speaking of some isolated genius. I still remember the days when I was so dissatisfied with my lack of writing skills that I decided to…

The problem is not copyright itself. The problem is that the creators are not the copyright owners any more.

This is a very subtle distinction. We should do all we can to help creators, not publishers. Publishers have their place in the distribution chain, but they should not be allowed to act as if they were the creators.

If the publisher's business model is failing, so be it. Publishers and gatekeepers are not worth saving. Creators are. Support creators. Buy CDs directly from the artists. Buy them through the shortest distribution chain possible (even if that might be Amazon or Apple).

Create laws that make copyright an unalienable right, thus forcing publishers back to the publishing business that is rightly theirs.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#229
The author claims that he hates the music industry and won't miss them, yet he admits he's willing to break the law to get their products. Consider the absurdity of this juxtaposition.

Modern popular music is properly considered the product of both the artists and the industry. Someone mentioned Rihanna. Do you think you would have any idea who Rihanna is without the music industry? Would her music sound at all the same with the music industry's backing (funds to pay for studio use and hire studio musicians)? If you don't like modern popular music fine, but if you don't like it, why are you pirating it?

Given that perspective, when you download music, you are enjoying both the labor of the artist and the record company. If you don't like the price they're charging to enjoy their services, that does not give you the right to simply not pay. (We can debate elsewhere whether you already have the right to not pay, but you certainly don't get that right simply because you don't like the price.)

Someone asked for a better analogy. Sneaking into a movie theater and standing (so you aren't taking up a seat) in the back is an analogous situation. You are enjoying the services of the movie theater (which you consider worth breaking the law to get access to) without paying their asking price.

Someone reminded us that copying isn't stealing. Well it isn't sharing either. Two children playing with two toys isn't sharing. Two children taking turns with one toy is sharing.

To return to the most important point, the author's argument can be summed up and generalized as, "If you don't like the cost/benefit ratio of a service, you have the right to take it for free as long as no one is directly hurt in the process."

Frankly, I think people like that should be stopped, which as Ed pointed out, almost makes me feel like a SOPA supporter.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#230

Creative effort - or at at least any that is truly worthy of the name - takes tears, and sweat, and blood. We can marvel at the output of an artist, or a writer, or a composer, or a film maker and yet fail to focus on the years of toil that often preceded that work. And I am not here speaking of some isolated genius. I still remember the days when I was so dissatisfied with my lack of writing skills that I decided to…

"I have sole control over what is done with that which I create." Actually, the US Constitution only allows for limited control, not unlimited control. The Constitution requires Fair Use exceptions to your control of your created works.

While your conclusion is correct, isn't it other later case law that permitted Fair Use? I don't think that is actually in the constitution.
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