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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#221

Post by nineplay »

nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

I agree that this is a serious issue. I know 3 kids who graduated in 2019 and got into top universities. Three years later

-- One flatly refused to leave home despite a lot of pushing from their parents. They are working at the local theater and taking community college courses here and there with no real future plans or goals

-- One also decided to go to CC, with her parent's support this time. She's 21, just got married, and has decided to be a vet tech with the anticipation of being a SAH wife and mother.[0]

-- One went to a top university and had a mental breakdown earlier this year - going back home and almost refusing to get out of bed or eat. Fortunately(?) this happened over a 4 week winter break, and with support from her parents and a prescription for anti-depressants she is back in school.

Not very inspiring outcomes. I personally think that the pressure from high school really ended up convincing them that they never wanted to work that hard again.

[0] I don't want to look down on women who wish to become SAHMs, but I think it's terribly short-sighted to make that decision at 21 and give up on pursuing a "real" career.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#223

Post by zabzonk »

purpleblue wrote: post #147
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

My son is 10 and is naturally accelerated across many subjects (12th grade proficiency in ELA, 9th grade proficiency in Math, talented in music, writing, etc). We have been actively indoctrinating our kids with the idea that college is not the be-all-end-all, that they should NOT apply for Ivy schools, 3rd tier schools are very good and if they want to go abroad or even eschew college altogether, we will support them…

you do know that "indoctrinating" is not a positive thing to do?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#224

Post by antihipocrat »

mouse_ wrote: post #196
jahsome wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

Do you honestly not see how your own narrative could be seen as dismissive to the vast majority of the world? And yes, I do see value in comparing scars, as do most people who do not reside in the high tower. I understand the social rift between you and I is comparable to living on a different planet, and I forgive you for not getting that, but others may not. Please just understand that our current situation is part…

The physical experience and effects of enduring a stressful environment is the same for everyone regardless of who they are, where they're from, or what they are doing.

An equivalent high stress environment can occur whether working in an executive office, working in a call center or selling bracelets on the street.

Learning to overcome high stress experiences is a transferrable skill regardless of the context in which it was learned.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#225

Post by Apocryphon »

nradov wrote: post #218
jahsome wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

I honestly see value in having scars, both the physical and mental varieties. Scars create resilience. We saw this during the recent pandemic. The upper-middle class "high achieving, high anxiety" types who had never faced any real danger or hardship were the most likely to panic and demand all sorts of ridiculous lockdowns and mandates, even though the vast majority of them were never at any significant risk. Wherea…

Scars innately look different from healthy tissue. The lessons learned in response of trauma can likewise be maladaptive. Certainly people, especially those most self-isolated during the pandemic, could use more contact with the so-called "real world." But not everything formed as part of resilience is as it should be.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#226

Post by kypro »

arp242 wrote: post #2

Another possible explanation is that we are simply diagnosing these kind of mental health issues better – due to decrease in stigmatization and/or more attention to it – but that our treatment is worse than doing nothing, and is leading to higher rates of self-harm and suicide. I have no idea if that's the case – and if it is a factor at all it probably doesn't account for all of it – but it seems something worth exp…

I think the opposite could be true – that we're too quick to diagnose mental illnesses in kids today. In the last few years I've witnessed several kids in my family get referred to doctors for potential mental illnesses and then end up on a cocktail of drugs as a result.

It's something I've found really difficult because I was never personally convinced they were mentally ill in the first place and in many cases these drugs have really nasty side effects. I don't think it's going too far to say part of that child dies when they're given high doses of depressants, anxiety and ADHD meds.

Imo we probably need to stop telling kids they're mentally ill and giving them medication, while also finding a way to be compassionate about their struggles. I'm constantly trying to convince one teenage girl in my family at the moment that it's okay to be shy and anxious sometimes. That she doesn't need medication and there's nothing wrong with her. But it's a hard argument to make when certain teachers and family members are telling her she possibly does in an attempt to be compassionate.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#227

Post by mech987 »

oneoff786 wrote: post #66
slowmovintarget wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teenagers having the idea reinforced through social media that being different is bad, is bad. Left to their own devices, that is the default social order that children create.

But come on. Diversity is not actually bad. People being diverse even if they think it’s bad is not bad. And memes are not a meaningful driver of diversity.

I don't think any of the people you are having a discussion with are making the claims you think they are making.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#228

Post by slowmovintarget »

oneoff786 wrote: post #66
slowmovintarget wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teenagers having the idea reinforced through social media that being different is bad, is bad. Left to their own devices, that is the default social order that children create.

But come on. Diversity is not actually bad. People being diverse even if they think it’s bad is not bad. And memes are not a meaningful driver of diversity.

Intent does not an outcome make.

"Social media" accelerates unmoderated interaction with other irresponsible people, which, generally speaking, is not healthy for teenagers.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#229

Post by Maursault »

I think this is only perceived because it is of recent focus and more openness about feelings, as US population suicide rates are within a small margin from 1950s to present.[1] I suspect close to the same rate of depression in teens in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, etc.

But you know what else happened in 2012? Linux took over the datacenter. Probably just a coincidence.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/187465/death-rate-from-s...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#230

Post by tanseydavid »

mouse_ wrote: post #148
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re going to get a bias in here because a lot of folks are STEM focused / high achieving high anxiety types :)

I guarantee most of these "high achieving high anxiety types" live with significantly less anxiety than customer service reps/bag handlers/food service workers.

You are talking in terms of externalities.

Anxiety is an internal response that can be expected to be different for different individuals under the same circumstances.

Trying to judge whether or not another individual "ought to" experience anxiety in a given situation is a matter of opinion and it has no bearing on what the other person is experiencing.

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