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We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

danmcquillan.org

221–230 of 425 posts

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#221
post #102

The BS that ChatGPT generates is especially odious because it requires so much effort to detect if you're not a SME in whatever output it's giving. Plus, the output, when wrong, is subtly wrong- it's usually not obvious BS, it's credible BS. If you are not competent in the particular area you're asking about, you likely don't have the skills to recognize BS. It also is a time saver, doing work that most people find u…

>if you're not a SME Small and Medium-sized Enterprise? What's SME in this instance?

This thread is weird. Are the comments made by bots unaware of each other?

https://i.imgur.com/t6ilhR7.png

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#222
post #102

The BS that ChatGPT generates is especially odious because it requires so much effort to detect if you're not a SME in whatever output it's giving. Plus, the output, when wrong, is subtly wrong- it's usually not obvious BS, it's credible BS. If you are not competent in the particular area you're asking about, you likely don't have the skills to recognize BS. It also is a time saver, doing work that most people find u…

ChatGPT helps a lot but it is necessary to take everything with a grain of salt - so what? It still can save a lot of time. Just Alt-tab ChatGPT/Google. Adjust your mental model from what you think it should be to what it actually is.

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#223

I’ve seen this argument over and over again: it’s just predicting the next word, it’s not creating anything new, etc. How do we know we’re not doing the same or similar in our brains? We can’t even define creativity, intelligence, let alone tell how it works. Predicting the next word is very much part of an intelligent discourse. What if it’s all just a “computational guessing game” all the way down with perhaps a sp…

I won't speak for what's "all the way down", but on whatever level humans perform reflective reasoning, it's self-evident that we don't simply "predict the next word" in the way a LLM does. Whether or not a LLM is capable of "creating anything new" is a different argument altogether. "New" is in eye of the beholder and it is often said that nothing is new under the sun, but we already know that unthinking processes w…

Please provide evidence that intelligent speech isn’t simply predicting the next word, as it’s obviously not self-evident to me.

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#224

I’ve seen this argument over and over again: it’s just predicting the next word, it’s not creating anything new, etc. How do we know we’re not doing the same or similar in our brains? We can’t even define creativity, intelligence, let alone tell how it works. Predicting the next word is very much part of an intelligent discourse. What if it’s all just a “computational guessing game” all the way down with perhaps a sp…

This. I think the biggest distinction between biological neural nets that seem to be self aware and those that are not is simply metacognition. I suspect the actual stimuli responses (decision making) is virtually the same but self awareness adds a layer after the fact of reasoning about the decision.

IF I'm right, one could reasonably argue that metacognition is simply a tool to help adjust the stimuli response for future decisions. One that has become complex enough that it rose to the level to give the sense of self awareness. A sort of back propagation tool to put it in ML terms.

Further, if a system isn't adjusting weights and biases as it goes, and metacognition/self awareness is just a mechanism to do so, then we're not so different from these models aside from them being orders of magnitude simpler.

We like to think the way we think is somehow magic and discredit these systems as a way of keeping our thinking elevated. Maybe our brains are not that special just far more advanced than our current technological capabilities.

Maybe I'm way off base, but like you said, it's dangerous to just assume these systems are missing some magic and therefore just bs generators (as if people aren't pretty consistent bs generators)

tl;dr: Agreed. Maybe all biological neural networks are untrustworthy bs generators too. A pile of bs built on previous bs all the way down to the beginning of life.

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would seem to be the “stochastic parrot” view denounced. But it seems hard to believe. Haven’t you ever had the experience of knowing exactly what you want to say but struggling to find the word for it? How could that be if we’re just randomly selecting words like a souped-up Markov chain?

We’re not randomly selecting but probabilistically predicting. Haven’t you noticed you predict the next word people will say with very high [________]?

Within a sentence sure. And often arguments are familiar enough that even an essay I’ll know where it’s going. But we do occasionally have original ideas.

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If authors want people to read their articles they should learn to write. Let's put snarkiness to one side - the article was shit. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it. Poorly written, with the same dumb thoughts - and I use the term loosely - I can get from any spoiled sophmore at any university in the western world. The only reason it got any traction was a clickbait title about a hot topic. So I feel…

You still haven’t referenced a single thought actually expressed in the article.

There was a single thought expressed in the article!?

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#227
post #102

The BS that ChatGPT generates is especially odious because it requires so much effort to detect if you're not a SME in whatever output it's giving. Plus, the output, when wrong, is subtly wrong- it's usually not obvious BS, it's credible BS. If you are not competent in the particular area you're asking about, you likely don't have the skills to recognize BS. It also is a time saver, doing work that most people find u…

Plus 1) you can't write test for it. 2) have fun debugging natural language (debugging PL is hard enough)

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#228
I have a vague feeling that graphics and text AI are recognizing textures rather than structures.

One funny example is dogs disguised as panda: https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cd73e1221000059007aca5... because it's black and white. I am sure AI would gradually solve this problem but this makes me wonde, could AIs really "understand" shapes and structures, narrative logic, or even "reasoning" like humans do?

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why we need comments from people proud that they couldn’t be troubled to read the article that is supposedly being discussed, but it seems like a popular genre of reply whenever something tech-critical is posted.

What about the people who actually read the original article word for word - aren't they the real victims?

I don’t think so. I don’t agree with everything it says but I found it interesting enough. “Is generating a lot of nonsense and boilerplate a justifiable use of scarce resources?” is actually a rather profound question.

Re: We come to bury ChatGPT, not to praise it

#230
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't seem much different to me than how people should use wikipedia. It looks like it will be a useful tool to use, you just can't be careless.

Wikipedia has moderation and standards for sourcing, etc. that has made it generally very reliable. ChatGPT is a fancy parrot that sounds reliable. To actually verify that its output is correct requires more work and cross-referencing sources, etc.

That's a good point. For more complex topics, the act of verifying correctness is also more complex. I think it's a fair tradeoff though. A more powerful tool also requires more work to use CORRECTLY. Now, whether people will actually put in due diligence is another matter.
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