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Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

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Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#221

Post by Ekaros »

robocat wrote: post #158
pembrook wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy. Being a steward of an already-giant company...one that has product-market fit, reliable sales/distribution channels, household brand awareness, and a position of gravity in the markets...is infinitely easier than building something from scratch. Nobody who was employee #1567 sh…

> The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy. From the public’s point-of-view, the “software class” are looting the public: outsized compensation for a risk of say 2% (20% fired over ten years). Nobody who was employee #13370 should ever be granted $100k+ of equity in a business they didn't build. I’m being sarcastic: bu…

Non-sarcastically I actually agree. The whole equity compensation seems like cheating other taxpayers.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#222

Post by mejutoco »

colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

> growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow

If this were true, should not companies hire now, thinking long term, like Google did in the last crisis circa 2008?

It looks like most companies hire or fire not for today, but for next quarter.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#223

Post by charles_f »

charcircuit wrote: post #208
charles_f wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things 1) you mostly need your money now , to pay rent or mortgage, food, activities. In that cyclic markets like this are bad for devs. In choosing between a higher salary that comes with a non negligible chance that you won't have a salary at all for a sustained period, or lesser compensation but higher stability, I choose the latter. 2) The crazy increase of salaries was the result of the raise of demand, and…

>you mostly need your money now I don't believe this to be true. I imagine the majority of people in tech have their money stored in assets (stocks, house, car) as opposed to cash.

Stocks as in the thing that's worth half it was 6 months ago? House as in the thing you need to live in, have a mortgage to pay for, and can't liquidate? Car as the thing you need to move and loses value over time?

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#224

Post by elijaht »

Aunche wrote: post #152
Tostino wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market can stay irrational far longer than you can stay solvent...

That logic only applies if you have unlimited potential downside. If they were really certain, they could have bought put options.

I would say the same logic still applies to puts. They all have expiries, and you will have to buy new puts once they expire.

You could just let the puts expire and have capped losses, but that feels like another form of the market staying irrational to your loss

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#225

Post by Insanity »

mejutoco wrote: post #222
colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

> growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow If this were true, should not companies hire now, thinking long term, like Google did in the last crisis circa 2008? It looks like most companies hire or fire not for today, but for next quarter.

My take? They hope these actions show that they can lead “strongly” through times of “adversity” and make “tough decisions”. And in doing so, hope the stock market will reward them for it.

They are not doing the strategic long-term thinking here but optimize for short-term results.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#226

Post by [deleted] »

jackmott42 wrote: post #172
colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

It is a very odd discussion to have since, even when running a company well, no public company should be compensating its CEO to the tune of even 1 million a year. It is absolutely a ruling class leeching off society that this happens. It doesn't happen everywhere or even in america in the past, big companies can be run without this behavior. It isn't supply and demand, it is cronyism. Should a CEO be allowed to get…

[deleted]

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#227

Post by game_the0ry »

I am happy to see the main stream narrative shifting. I have been ranting about this for a long time:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33896309

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29781972

Long story short - leaders are leaders bc they have the most accountability ('skin-in-the-game'). When they are the source of good in their group, they get all the perks (resources, money, mates, status, the best meat from the kill, etc); when they are the source of instability, they either relinquish leadership, or they are killed by their own (Revolutions of France and Russia).

This is why there was Occupy Wall Street and the modern Tea Party after the great recession - people were fundamentally discontent when wall street execs got bail outs AND record bonuses the next year. This is why you feel angry whenever you read those half-hearted, lawyer-and-hr-drafted canned statements about how the CEO is sooooooo sorry about lying off 10k of their own employees. This is why there is lack of trust in the mainstream media - they can get things wrong (Iraq / Afghan / Vietnam wars) and there is no accountability.

So let us bring back accountability. Apes. Together. Strong.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#228

Post by charcircuit »

charles_f wrote: post #223
charcircuit wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you mostly need your money now I don't believe this to be true. I imagine the majority of people in tech have their money stored in assets (stocks, house, car) as opposed to cash.

Stocks as in the thing that's worth half it was 6 months ago? House as in the thing you need to live in, have a mortgage to pay for, and can't liquidate? Car as the thing you need to move and loses value over time?

You can still sell stocks now. You can switch to renting a house and renting a car so you have cash now as opposed to later.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#229

Post by nmca »

I'm surprised that nobody links to the best proposed solution to this problem, so I will:

https://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/dumpceo.html

The US could, if it was inclined, legalise prediction markets & investors could subsidise markets for stock price conditional on the CEO stepping down, thus revealing in the strongest possible wisdom-of-the-market sense whether the CEO is going a good job.

This would solve the problem modulo short term inneficiencies and be much better than the status quo.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#230

Post by LatteLazy »

Holding people accountable implies a moral decision.

These matters are purely pragmatic however: a CEO can be terrible but as long as the short term, risk adjusted cost of replacing him is more than the same number for keeping him, he stays.

This is why no CEO every lets themselves become replaceable. Or if they do they rapidly stop being a CEO...

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