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Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

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Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#221

Post by logicchains »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #188
csomar wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> STEM is 100% historically discriminatory to women Is this a Western/US thing? Woman STEM graduates outnumber man in a number of countries. Mine and Iran for example but most Muslim countries have strong woman numbers. I don't think STEM in the west is discriminatory to women, out of the blue. It can't be more discriminatory than Iran? Unless, there is data and research that suggests otherwise.

Not just Muslim countries but Asia’s numbers are more even too. Not sure what happened but the West got leapfrogged by a lot of the rest of the world in this regard. We like to think we’re the shining light of progressivism but the reality may be more complicated than that.

There's a study showing more progressive countries have fewer women in tech. Because when people don't have to worry about putting a roof over their head, affording food and medical bills, they're more likely to pick the career that interests them. And fewer women are interested in STEM. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more... In Asia and the middle east people are generally poorer and with fewer opportunities (and there's much less social welfare there), so they need to prioritise economics over interest when choosing a career.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#222

Post by kodah »

caminante wrote: post #137
xu_ituairo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP might be pointing out the New York Post is seen as tabloidy

Ambiguous at best. Tabloidy/political/all the same.

Frankly, I read this article this morning when it broke on the NYP. The NYP stays in my feed but when I read their stuff I almost always cross it with other sources. There are none though because all that exists of this story right now is the docket. Miller, Google, and Olahan aren't talking.

How victims are portrayed in the media matters a great deal. Media can skewer a case by either poking holes in it or by flatly not investigating. The latter is what I feel is going on here. They could've interviewed potential witnesses at these NYC events, they could've interviewed some Googlers to find out if this "your team is too male" attitude actually exists in any contingent. They didn't do that though, instead, they plugged the hottest claims of the docket which all come from the plaintiff.

My statement was ambiguous on purpose. It says two things simultaneously:

1. If you don't believe this article, wait for better reporting.

2. If you believe this article, wait for better reporting.

I was hoping that might remind some people to temper their expectations until more information is known, which is why the last sentence is the way it is, and why I cited each of the allegations.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#223

Post by HideousKojima »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #162
grapehut wrote: post #72

These stories leave a bad taste in my mouth. It hasn't yet gone to court, so the guys allegations could be really be anything from the God's honest truth all the way to a complete fabrication. Yet there is a huge amount of irreparable damage by public stories like this. I was once personally on the receiving end of a complete false sexual harassment allegation from a coworker almost at random (someone I had almost no…

The ugly truth is — false sexual harassment complaint is one those things in life you keep hoping and praying it never happens to you. But if it does you’re screwed one way or the other. The stigma that it “automatically” brings just doesn’t go away. It just doesn’t. You forever become “that” person. And I really don’t know how it can be fixed. That’s just how it is.

The Billy Graham/Mike Pence rule is your best bet: don't let yourself be in any situation where a false accusation could arise. Of course you'll be accused of being a sexist/misogynist/whatever instead but that's easier to ignore or overcome than false accusations of sexual harassment.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#224

Post by ncann »

bhbh wrote: post #172

“When he asked why he was non-inclusive, Olohan was told that he had shown favouritism towards high-performing employees and that he was “ableist” for commenting on other employees’ “walking pace.” What? How can favoriting high-performing employees ever be a valid reason?

That part stood out to me as particularly funny, like a comedy script.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#225

Post by kbelder »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #193
Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of the way of things in America. I have the feeling that a large segment of the population believes that a woman is incapable of sexually harassing, a man, and I think this totally inaccurate belief has permeated throughout culture and into workplaces.

Women and girls are by far disproportionately the victims of sexual harassment and assault, but that just highlights how much of this women and girls have to deal with. It still leaves a bunch of room for men and boys to get some sexual harassment and assault.

I'm not sure it's as disproportionate as you seem.

It may be like physical abuse in a relationship; roughly even between sexes, but reported and documented cases are vastly lopsided by gender.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#226

Post by lormayna »

> Olohan said he began feeling increasing pressure from his supervisor, who told him that there were “obviously too many white guys” on his management team. In July he was encouraged to fire a male employee to make room on his team for a woman, the suit claims.

This is the most crazy section. Why physical characteristics like gender or ethnicity should be important in the management selection? And if yes, why only those two characteristics and not considering others like body weight or baldness?

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#227

Post by kodah »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #183
kodah wrote: post #18

Probably worth noting this story was first published by the New York Post. Take that for what you will. That said, this is a pretty wild turn of events. From the initial and continued sexual harassment/assault to the racism, and subsequent retaliation. More curious is the very direct "your team is too male" and the encouragement to fire someone. I've heard this hinted at before, but never said out loud for obvious re…

> Probably worth noting this story was first published by the New York Post. Take that for what you will. I think that even just five years ago I would’ve agreed with you on this, but when the attacks on elderly Asians began to happen during the pandemic, it was one of those painful things that it was the NY Post that could be counted on to make those visible. As I’ve gotten older, I haven’t become more conservative.…

For whatever reason folks think I made a political jab. I did not. Here's what I said to someone who posted something similar to you:

Frankly, I read this article this morning when it broke on the NYP. The NYP stays in my feed but when I read their stuff I almost always cross it with other sources. There are none though because all that exists of this story right now is the docket. Miller, Google, and Olahan aren't talking.

How victims are portrayed in the media matters a great deal. Media can skewer a case by either poking holes in it or by flatly not investigating. The latter is what I feel is going on here. They could've interviewed potential witnesses at these NYC events, they could've interviewed some Googlers to find out if this "your team is too male" attitude actually exists in any contingent. They didn't do that though, instead, they plugged the hottest claims of the docket which all come from the plaintiff.

My statement was ambiguous on purpose. It says two things simultaneously:

1. If you don't believe this article, wait for better reporting.

2. If you believe this article, wait for better reporting.

I was hoping that might remind some people to temper their expectations until more information is known, which is why the last sentence is the way it is, and why I cited each of the allegations.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#229

Post by peterfirefly »

yutijke wrote: post #145
rediguanayum wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a general consensus that the New York Post has a credibility gap, so it is not "ad hominem dogwhistle". From it's Wikipedia article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post ): "In a 2004 survey conducted by Pace University, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credi…

I don't know about the New York Post. Maybe it is guilty of publishing false and dishonest reporting. But I would also point out that a lot of people here on HN (in past discussions) and elsewhere have noted that the New York Times and the Washington Post also publish creatively interpreted news (or outright creative writing) at times. Despite this news articles from these sources are considered independently without…

It's a tabloid and it is not left-leaning... and it published true and embarrassing things about the Biden family up to the last US presidential election. It also regularly publishes true things about crime (and about who commits it). This is more than enough to explain why some people distrust it.

In my book, it is much more reliable than the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#230

Post by ShredKazoo »

kodah wrote: post #18

Probably worth noting this story was first published by the New York Post. Take that for what you will. That said, this is a pretty wild turn of events. From the initial and continued sexual harassment/assault to the racism, and subsequent retaliation. More curious is the very direct "your team is too male" and the encouragement to fire someone. I've heard this hinted at before, but never said out loud for obvious re…

>More curious is the very direct "your team is too male" and the encouragement to fire someone.

My friend who still lives in the Valley says this kind of sentiment is incredibly common there nowadays, e.g. advertising an open position and having discussions internally that a man won't be hired for the role.

It's pretty surprising to me, because statistics show that most major careers have a gender imbalance in one direction or the other:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/E...

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/software-deve...

Yet the gender imbalance in software engineering receives unique attention, to the point where people are willing to violate ethical rules in order to try & even out the genders in that particular career.

Why is this? What is the ethical justification for why addressing the gender imbalance in STEM/software engineering should be such an urgent moral priority?

My suspicion is that there is no good justification that holds up under scrutiny, and it's all just a moral panic fueled by social media.

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